My First Rogue (Help Please)

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Jatsu
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My First Rogue (Help Please)

Postby Jatsu » Sun Jan 26, 2003 1:08 pm

So first of all I think I better point out a few key things before go into how I am planning the development of this character.

*I will be playing Single Player Official Campaign only with this character
*I will mainly be swashbuckling with Shortsword/shortsword or Shortsword/dagger with longbow as a secondary, or when helpful weapon, and mace/mace when facing undead
*I will be playing a Human
*I have no intention of wearing anything heavier then studded armor

I was thinking for this build, I would go with the often used ranger1/rogue19 approach, but after reading a lot of the rogue threads, I’m considering possibly taking some levels of fighter either to augment or replace the ranger level. The extra feats would definitely be helpful, allowing me to take both Point Blank and Rapid Shot, or Dodge and Mobility, depending. However, because of the sneak attack bonuses, and the fact that they don’t work on undead, the favored enemy undead from the ranger level would be helpful, as well as the 19 rogue levels. I think a big determining factor to help you guys advise me would be to show you my starting statistics.

10Str, 16Dex, 12Con, 14Int, 10Wis, 14Cha

As far as feats are concerned, I dunno.. I could go with Weapon Focus and Improved Critical in short swords, or I could rely on sneak attack and Crippling Strike for extra damage, and also get an extra feat. I've seen Torias say that ranger Dual Weilding is not enough since you can't get Improved Two Weapon Fighting, but I think that taking say Improved Critical instead or getting favored enemy undead is better then an extra attack.. what do you think?

I am considering all of the following feats:
Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Weapon Finesse, Rapid Shot, Point Blank, Dodge, Mobility, Toughness, Weapon Focus, Improved Critical, Improved Evasion, Slippery Mind, and Crippling Strike.

Any and all advice anyone can offer with this is greatly appreciated,

Thanks

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dragon wench
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Postby dragon wench » Sun Jan 26, 2003 7:10 pm

Originally posted by Jatsu
I think a big determining factor to help you guys advise me would be to show you my starting statistics.

10Str, 16Dex, 12Con, 14Int, 10Wis, 14Cha

Thanks


If you are looking to incorporate some fighting characteristics in your rogue it might be a plan to take some points away from intelligence (for that class you really do not need an intelligence higher than 10) and perhaps charisma, and putting them into strength and constitution.
Maybe try: 14 strength, 14 constition, 10 intelligence and 12 charisma. Just my two cents anyway :)
[SPOILER]testingtest12[/SPOILER][SIZE="1"]Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

[SPOILER]testingtest12[/SPOILER][color="Silver"].......All those moments ... will be lost ... in time ... like tears in rain.[/size][/color]

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Jatsu
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Postby Jatsu » Sun Jan 26, 2003 7:31 pm

I'm going to have to quote the Rogue guide from GameFaqs.

STRENGTH
10str is more than sufficient. That gives you an initial loot allotment of 100 pounds, and no Strength bonuses or penalties. You can even consider an 8 Strength. That's 86 pounds and a -1 penalty, but you won't be using your Strength to attack in most cases anyway (Weapon Finesse) and the -1 damage penalty might be worth it to get a 16 Charisma or Intelligence, for instance. Rogues are all about the fast knife in the dark, and a paltry one or two more additional damage points is going to make NO difference added to a multiple-d6 sneak attack. The primary uses for Strength for Rogues are, in the early game, the ability to carry a lot of loot, and in the late game, as a damage adder to your composite bow or melee attack. However, there are scads of excellent items in NWN to boost your Strength bonus in the late game and those initial points are far too precious to spend on something like Strength.

INTELLIGENCE
After Dexterity, this is the second-most important Rogue ability score. A high Intelligence score gives you bonuses to your skill points, and Rogues live or die by their skill point totals. 14 is the lowest score I would recommend here for any Rogue (+2 bonus), and if at all possible, I suggest a 16 (+3 bonus).

CHARISMA
Charisma is the key ability to the Persuade skill, which in the NWN single-player game, is going to be your most-used skill after Open Locks. You will run into more situations where Persuade will be crucial to your success in the single-player game than even Disable Traps, most of which can be sidestepped or triggered from afar if needed. A high Persuade skill combined with a high Charisma will literally open many locks to you that no amount of open locks skill, bullying, evading, or slicing-n-dicing will do. I suggest a minimum of 14 (+2 bonus) here and if you can at all justify it to yourself, go with a 16 (+3 bonus).


I appreciate your advice and all, but if you could explain more based on what the guide says and why you oppose it, it would be great =)

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Postby dragon wench » Sun Jan 26, 2003 8:38 pm

@Jatsu,
I am also familiar with that guide and have followed it in playing rogues myself (probably my favourite class to play actually); the reason I suggested what I did, though, is that you specifically mentioned wanting to take some levels in fighter. So, mea culpa, I misunderstood ;)

They are right, strength is not especially critical ( I still tend to think a somewhat higher constitution is not a bad thing however). Though be advised that strength enhancing items are actually somewhat rarer than suggested by the guide and are in some cases level-dependent.
Fortunately bags of holding and magical bags are relatively easy to obtain so this helps with the loot problem. :)
[SPOILER]testingtest12[/SPOILER][SIZE="1"]Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

[SPOILER]testingtest12[/SPOILER][color="Silver"].......All those moments ... will be lost ... in time ... like tears in rain.[/size][/color]

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EvilEdwin
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Postby EvilEdwin » Mon Jan 27, 2003 10:22 am

I've just gone through with a Halfling Fighter/Rogue (levels 4/14). Have a look at the character here:

Hope it helps.
Don't think you know all the answers.

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Thanatos
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Postby Thanatos » Mon Jan 27, 2003 12:34 pm

Only dex really matters IMHO. Cha is nice for story-related purposes. Ditto for int and wis (to a lesser extent), but otherwise, unless you really want to get every skill offered for the rogue, you really don't need too much int. I don't know if you meant that you were going to play the single-player campaign solo, without any henchmen, but if that was the case, you'll defintely want some con or maybe str. They're not really important otherwise.

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Postby Ubik » Wed Jan 29, 2003 1:42 am

Rogues are my favorite class as well and my current lvl 1 ranger/lvl 10 rogue is doing wonders in the late chapter 2. I've started off with an Elf, because the first time I went through the game (again with a ranger1/rogue xx, only human) I hit the ceiling way before end game, so I thought I could bear with the xp penalty - the game is quite easy anyway, so a slower lvl progress has proved intriguing.

The added Dexterity (With the addition of a couple nifty items I got it up to 25) works wonders in every aspect of the game (he is proficient in shortswords - dual weilding Feyduster and a +2 ss - and longbow).

I took only 12 strength initially and I haven't put a single point in it, pumping up my Dex. all the way.
A Hill Giant belt gives me more carrying capability and a henchmans does the tanking, while my finesse rogue strikes lethal blows from the flank or rear.

If you really want to take Fighter levels (I wouldn't do it, but it might prove interesting) I'd suggest four of them, and you'd still have to take that one Ranger lvl, for dual weilding (you'd lose two feats to get there, otherwise) and the racial enemy feat (undead and human are definitely the best - actually the only viable - choices there).

In this case you'll suffer a hefty exp. penalty - dunno if you can live with it.

Cleaver might be an extremely interesting feat to get for your rogue xx/fighter4/ranger1 character.
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