Need Suggestions. Kits for IWD/HOW/TOTL.

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Need Suggestions. Kits for IWD/HOW/TOTL.

Postby KensaiRyu » Tue Nov 20, 2001 9:13 pm

Okay, my interest in IWD/HOW/TOTL, has led me to pursue adding some 'Kits' into this game. It is not possible to add kits as they are done in bg2, but is is possible to implement them in other ways, namely: using guilds, that you must join, that give benefits the same as kits.

The first guild I created is for thieves (Single, multi or Dual). It is based off a popular organization for thieves, that appears in at least 2 forgotten realms books, and is undoubtably familiar to those of you who play PnP. I dont want to give away too on this guild, yet. But some benefits of joining include:

1.)Avoid Damage: usable once per day for every 6 levels, enhances the thief's ability to avoid damage from weapons, based on his new guilds enhanced training. + 3 damage points resistance against crushing, slashing, piercing, and missile damage. +2 bonus to all saving throws and rolls, for 1 turn. At level 16, this ability becomes stronger, +4 damage points resistance, and +3 to sv throws and rolls for 2 turns.

2.)Alchemy: Create Shadowed Potion: usable once per day for every 8 levels, allows the thief to use Alchemy to create potions he can use. (like potions of Invisiblity, etc KRNOTE: These potions are different from the ingame ones, and have little monetary value so creating many and selling them wont get you anywhere =) )

3.)(Special Ability given to cre on joining the guild) +1 Bonus Damage Bonus, when using thief weapons, for every 8 levels gained. (IE a short sword that does 1-6+2 damage would do 1-6+3 when used by this guild member at level 7. At level 8 it would do 1-6+4, level 16 1-6+5, etc.)

4.)Cloak of Thievery : usable once per day for every 8 levels, the same effects as the spell 'non-detection', that lasts for 8 hours.

5.)Innate Ability usable once per day for every 6 levels that allows you to conjure a special weapon that is given to all initiates of the order (I cant elaborate on this one without giving away too much about the organization).

Those are some of the benefits of joining the thief guild. Note that some of the benefits, you do not gain until you are a certain level. What I need now, is some suggestions for penalties that this guild would have.


My next guild doesnt have a name yet. I need a suggestion for that. Let me explain what it is: Its a guild for Gnomes only, that trains them to be combat engineers, it also gives specialization in Crossbows. So its kind of a Gnome Engineer/Marksman. The engineer has several abilities, such as creating special ammo for crossbows, I will list some of his abilities below:

1.)Specialization in Crossbow proficency gained on joining the guild.

2.)Create Bolts of Hammering. This special ability, usable once per day, for every 6 levels of the engineer, allows him to create 10 Bolts of Hammering (Regular crossbow bolt damage (1D8), the heavy heads on these bolts have a chance (15%) of stunning the target for 3 rounds.) for a crossbow.

3.)Build Mechanical Servant. This Special Ability usable once per day, for every 8 levels of the engineer allows the engineer to construct a golem-like being to aid the engineer.

4.)Alchemy: Create Explosive. This innate ability, usable once for every six levels of the engineer, allows him a 50% chance to create one type of either, an explosive potion, or a similar potion (like a potion of firebreath).

This guild also needs advice on penalties, and a name Suggestion. Currently its Gnome Engineer/Marksman. I will make more guilds, but I need suggestions, first.
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Postby KensaiRyu » Wed Nov 21, 2001 4:36 pm

Okay, couple updates to mention. The Gnome Marksman/Engineer, will be one guild, another guild is: Dwarf Combat Engineer.

The Dwarf Combat Engineer guild differs from the gnome Marksman/Engineer guild, in that most of the innate abilites are offensive ( I had to change some of the abilities for the Gnome Marksman/Engineer) such as : Creating traps, explosive potions, making new kinds of ammo for slings, and bows. The gnome Marksman/Engineer guild will focus more on defensive abilites (like creating potions to lower Ac, Creating restraining type weapons, like Nets, and creating some special ammo for crossbows, (like the Bolts of hammering.)) and it is the only engineer guild which will make 'mechanical servants'.

Archers, a guild for Rangers, are now included in the guild selection, but be aware you can only pick one guild per character, currently (same as the Bg2, kits).

Havent Done this yet, but its on my to do list: A Guild for Druids/Rangers, Based on a Follower of Mielieki (sp?), patron god of such folk. The Follower of Mielieki guild will give innate spells, based on the 'Hold Animals' and 'Animal Summoning I, II', and more druidic spells. I need some suggestions for more ideas for this guild, in terms of abilities gained, and penalties it should have.

Some penalties I have so far:

For the engineers, I have made the potions they create fairly heavy (weigh 2, each, and only have a sell value in shops of 5 gold =) ), so hoarding them will be harder.

Also need some suggestions for some more guilds (kits), still =). Guilds are still needed for fighters, mages, clerics, and Bards. I have an idea for a Paladin guild called 'Redeemer', that will give bonus's to combat abilities, and constitution, and will lose the Detect evil, smite evil, and Protection from evil Innate abilites.
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Postby Nippy » Thu Nov 22, 2001 8:21 am

@ Kensai, how are these kits going to be introduced? I like them though.

R.E. The Paladin one, I have an idea.

The Crusaders

A bonus to there constitution because they travel for a long time and more skills in weapon fighting, i.e a larger weapon skill.

They lose spell abilities (normal cleric spells) but keep Lay on hands and disease curing etc.

A negative to there dexterity due to their open fighting style.
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Postby KensaiRyu » Thu Nov 22, 2001 12:31 pm

Well basically, there will be some repersenatives of each of the Guilds in some of the towns (People you talk to, one of them will train you in guild abilities), like Kuldahar, and Lonelywood. These repersenatives will allow you entry into the guilds if you qualify (IE a Ranger wanting to become an Archer, qualifies.) and if you are not already a member of another guild. Each player character in the party can be a member of one guild, (same as Kit in bg2, basically,m only one allowed) however I am thinking of maybe having a lesser guild that all can join, like Alchemist's guild, which will teach to create some basic potions if you are a high enough level, or Naturist Guild, which sill show you how to use herbs to create healing potions and antidotes.

BTW: Good idea with the Crusaders.
That will definately be implememted. =)

A -1 to Dex as that guilds penalty, right?

[ 11-22-2001: Message edited by: KensaiRyu ]
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Postby Nippy » Thu Nov 22, 2001 3:22 pm

Maybe one, it would depend on class balance though, do you think -1 is enough?
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Postby KensaiRyu » Thu Nov 22, 2001 5:03 pm

Okay heres what I got so far for the Crusader , Paladin kit:

-2 to Dexterity. +1 to Constitution.

Only can use the paladin innates Lay on Hands and Cure Disease. The others are removed.

Evey four levels, gains +1 to damage bonus and Thaco. Every Six levels, gains 1D8 bonus to max hp.

Innate Ability: Vengeance of Tyr, usable once per day for every 6 levels, doubles attacks for 2( too long? too short?) rounds.

Innate Ability: Smite Undead. Same effects as the wizard spell smite evil, usable once per day for every 8 levels gained, but this ability is only gained once you have hit level 8. Casting time is much longer, however, (9) than the wizard spell, making this innate ability take the entire round to cast.
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Postby KensaiRyu » Tue Nov 27, 2001 3:58 am

A couple more updates to report:

Beast Masters are in, now, but not Kensai's, since the no good AC would mean certain death, im sure. (My Elf/Ranger had -17 AC and regularly got beat down to near death on the burial isle...)

I have been extensively testing the guilds innate abilities, in game, to see how balanced they are, and have decided to make the createable potions and ammo, heavier than before, to help reduce the sleep/create tactic of hoarding potions. So currently, createable potions weigh in at a heighty 5-8 apiece, depending on their effects, and feature reduce effects from the same potions type you can find in the game. For example, a Dwarf Created Potion of Explosions, does less damage than a comparable potion of explosions you find. This is for balance reasons, so you cant just use hoarded potions to win every fight...The create-able ammo types have a lower percentage to use their special effects, now. For example the Gnome Marksman/Engineer created Bolts of Glass Dust:

Bolt of Glass Dust

Quarrels or bolts are the ammunition fired by crossbows regardless of the weapon's size.

This bolt was created by your gnome engineer, the level of your engineer determines the effectiveness of the bolt created. The shaft of this bolt is coated with glass dust, and has a 12% chance of blinding the target for 5 rounds, at levels 1-8. At levels 8-16 the bolt has a 7% chance of blinding the target permanently, and at levels 16+, the bolt has a 10% chance of blinding the target, permanently. This bolt will do less damage because of its irregular shaft design.
Damage: 1D4
Damage type: Missile (piercing)
Weight: 0
Launcher: Crossbow


Currently, im doing all the innate spells for the Crusader paladin, and working on that script. I wanted to add some of the bg2 Paladin kits, but since EFF files arent supported in how, it is impossible to do Damage vs creature type, and damage vs align (like the Undead Hunter and Cavalier use). The items in HOW/TOTL that do that are hardcoded (in the exe, and I wont modify the exe, as thats illegal).
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Postby Onyx » Tue Nov 27, 2001 7:55 am

Yo, something for Barbarians.
PLEAZZZZZZEEEEE
:D :D :D

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Postby KensaiRyu » Tue Nov 27, 2001 6:19 pm

Barabarians, huh? Ok, Barabarians are fairly easy to do.. heres what I got for Barbarians...You will get a chance to join the Tribe Of Elk.

Every level from 1-9 Gains an extra 1D6 Hit points. At levels 10 and up gains +2 extra HP per level.

Gains +2 to movement rate every four levels. (like bg2)

Berserker Rage, usable once per day for every four levels (lasts 1 turn per use)while he (or she) is raging, is immune to stun, sleep, charm, domination, and feeblemind and other mind affecting spells.

Penalties:

Cannot wear any plate mail armor...(This is harder to implement, but not impossible.)

Cannot specialize past normal specialization (fairly easy to do, also.)

Sound ok?
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Postby koz-ivan » Tue Nov 27, 2001 8:41 pm

woah, that barbarian sounds really really tough. why so many added hit points? in pnp or bg2 it's only a possible additional 2 hp.

perhaps they should have an xp penalty? the lack of higher spec & plate armour does not seem like you are giving up much for an average of 29 hp at level 10. and there are still plenty of good armours & protection items.

the others sound very cool.
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Postby Onyx » Wed Nov 28, 2001 2:14 am

@Koz-Ivan
NONONONONONOOOOOO
leave it as it is.
i like it just the way KensaiRyu
has put it. :D
@KensaiRyu
sounds good to me. :D
Just let me say one thing.
Weapons... i love hammers.
something to think on ;)


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Postby Onyx » Wed Nov 28, 2001 3:45 am

And what about something for those poor
people that like Druids?
I know it dosen't appeal to many, but
if you add somefunky stuff in there you
never know.
The idea was that i would like to make a
party with Barbarians and Druids and mabye
one thief, always need a thief.
But a party towards the nature side, if you get what i mean.

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Postby Onyx » Wed Nov 28, 2001 4:18 am

Well, you know how i mensioned above about the Druids and Barbarians going together 'cause of the idea of the nature loving party and all that, what about not druids but shamans. Hmmmmmm.
Shamans, what do you think?
And i mean really powerful shamans.


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Postby KensaiRyu » Wed Nov 28, 2001 3:44 pm

Originally posted by koz-ivan:
<STRONG>woah, that barbarian sounds really really tough. why so many added hit points? in pnp or bg2 it's only a possible additional 2 hp.

perhaps they should have an xp penalty? the lack of higher spec & plate armour does not seem like you are giving up much for an average of 29 hp at level 10. and there are still plenty of good armours & protection items.

the others sound very cool.</STRONG>


Good, some feedback finally! Ok the reason the Barbarians get more HP's per level is because of how the hp rolls work. Testing I have done shows the dice rolls tends to err more on the lower numerical side, then the higer side, thus 1-6 means more like 1-3 or maybe 4 if you are very lucky. As for the other things, they are all copied from bg2, Barbarian kit. If I am incorrect in anything (about the differences between this kit and the bg2 one) I will change it. Additional penalties I could do: -2 to Dex, and CHA (any other ideas) also. I have to stay away from modifying the XP charts, currently, I use my script to check what level the target is, then add all bonuses from the Kit up to that level, using global variables to keep track of which player and which guild that player belongs too.

@ Onyx: About Druids I am including a Druid Kit called Priest of Mielikki. Which will have some nature-type innate abilities. (Like Hold Undead, Natures Grasp (Innate Entangle), Call Dryad, (thats All I got so far)etc.

I still need suggestions for penalties for some of my existing kits, like the Gnome Marksman/Engineer. And the Dwarf Combat Engineer...And some more Ideas for other kits.

I have a new kit for a mage, based off Edwin's Kit. Red Wizard of Thay. 2 Bonus spells per Level.

Penalties:

Must have 18 INT to qualify.

Undroppable amulet must be worn signifying your status in the guild.

Cannot be multi class, only Single class mage.

What other penalties should it have???
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Postby Onyx » Thu Nov 29, 2001 2:34 am

I understand a -2 penalty on charisma, but not dex.
Why not -2 cha,wis,int or even max14 on one or two of those.
And not going past normal specialization
in weapons is fine.
Though, i would like to be able to advance
with one chosen weapon,...,hammer,
but that's just me. :D
About the druids and that druid kit,
priest of Mielikki, sound nice to me.
Guild for fighters.
Since this is Ice Wind Dale, and we are talking about rough wild lands here, what about something like WildFighters or Hunters.
+2 Con, -2 Str, -2 Cha.
Also onty use Two Handed Weapon & Bows.
Also ability, FarSight, Remove Poison.
You get the idea.
Well that's all i can think of for now.

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Postby koz-ivan » Thu Nov 29, 2001 8:44 pm

Originally posted by Onyx:
<STRONG>@Koz-Ivan
NONONONONONOOOOOO
leave it as it is.
i like it just the way KensaiRyu
has put it. :D
@KensaiRyu
sounds good to me. :D
Just let me say one thing.
Weapons... i love hammers.
something to think on ;)


Onyx</STRONG>


well in that case. (and info about how the dice work)

looks good!

:)
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Postby Onyx » Fri Nov 30, 2001 6:56 am

@KensaiRyu
To join there guilds, what does one
require? For example, to join the
barbarians, tribe of the Elk, do you have
to be a fighter, 'cause there isn't a
barbarian class.
Also are you interested in adding new
quests? Even new maps?

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Postby KensaiRyu » Fri Nov 30, 2001 3:39 pm

Requirements look like this, currently:

Fighter(any): Barbarian tribe of the Elk, or Barbarian tribe of the White Wolf.Will have more 'kits' once I get some more ideas...

Single class mage, with 18 INT: Red Wizard of Thay.

Druid: Priest or Priestess of Mielikki.

Ranger: Hunter, Archer, or Beastmaster.

Gnome(any, except single class mage): Gnome Marksman or Gnome Engineer.

Dwarf: Battlerager, or Combat Engineer.

Thief(any): Guild of the Fire Knives, or Night Masks.

Paladin: Crusader or Champion of Tyr.

Clerics: Maybe a Shaman...havent decided yet, definately a cleric with bonus innate healing spells will be included, though. (cure light wounds just doesnt cut it on heart of fury).

Any more Ideas for more kits?


@ Onyx, About the new quests & maps: I started a small add on for IWD, a while back, however I had to stop work on it for lack of good tools to create new areas with, perhaps now that IETME is out, I can finish it up...But first I want to get these Kits done =).
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Postby Rail » Fri Nov 30, 2001 9:37 pm

I'd like to see a cleric of Tempus/Tempos, since it would surely match the setting well. Give some combat bonuses and some spellcasting limitations. Wish I had more specifics for you, but it was just a thought.
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Postby Onyx » Mon Dec 03, 2001 2:08 am

@KensaiRyu
About new maps, lets just say for now that that's my job. I'm accually am 3dArtist for a games company. I really can't tell you more now, but if you want to know more let my know, 'cause i would love to do some artwork, since i do like these games. :)
You can always send me an e-mail for more information.
Anyway, love the work your doing, accually i had sort of given up on IceWind Dale, but after reading this stuff your trying to do here, i've just installed the game again, started playing again, and can't wait for these kits. :D
Well, that all for now.

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