Celerity

[HardcoreHeathen]

Is it just me, or is Celerity incredibly over-powered? I have played through the game once as a brujah, once as a tremere, got halfway through with a malkavian (got sick of not knowing what i was saying,) and am currently running through on a ventrue. The brujah was, by far, the easiest. With celerity I could use a weapon or my fists and knock one bad guy down before the others had taken 3 steps...anyway, what I'm interested in knowing is, are there any other disciplines that are anywhere near as powerful?

[Faust]

Originally Posted by HardcoreHeathen

Is it just me, or is Celerity incredibly over-powered? I have played through the game once as a brujah, once as a tremere, got halfway through with a malkavian (got sick of not knowing what i was saying,) and am currently running through on a ventrue. The brujah was, by far, the easiest. With celerity I could use a weapon or my fists and knock one bad guy down before the others had taken 3 steps...anyway, what I'm interested in knowing is, are there any other disciplines that are anywhere near as powerful?

In my opinion, no. Celerity is by far the most powerful discipline in the game. It has no real rivals. Certainly thaumaturgy, dominate, and fortitude are all potent disciplines. However, they each have limitations in a way that celerity does not.

Thaumaturgy and dominate, for example, are incredibly potent in fights against human opponents. However, they have a much higher blood cost to generate the same effectiveness as celerity, and are of little use in "boss" fights. Fortitude is a wonderful all around discipline that allows you to absorb a tremendous amount of damage. Ultimately, the damage you can absorb pales in comparison to celerity's speed and ability to attack so fast.

This does not mean the other disciplines are weak. Certainly, all those I listed (and I'd probably add Obfuscate) are incredibly useful and potent. I've always felt, however, that celerity is far overpowered in this game. Then again, it was always overpowered in the VtM pnp rules, as well. Though, the new VtR rules have balanced that some.

[pennypincher]

in the PnP game, Celerity's big balance points were as follows:

1) It, unlike many discplines, cost blood. Most vampires can only spend one blood a round, and celerity required you to spend that blood on... Shockingly... Celerity. This meant that VALUABLE dots in Strength, Stamina and Dexterity were being lost in order to contiue to power your discpline. This doesn't seem so bad, but when a guy with Fort 3 and Stamina pumped to 10 is sucking up all the dammage your 6 attacks each round can do and promptly clouting you with one attack with his massive, buffed Strength and Dexerity, it really made you realise how much you were losing by not using that wounderful Vitae on attributes. A Celerity vampire was at his strongest when he had pumped, fed and THEN entered combat... But that was a situation that didn't present itself often, as unless you were facing mortal enemies, feeding in the middle or just before combat was hard to do while keeping track of your enemy... And why would you waste celerity on a living person??

2) Celerity required activation the round BEFORE it started to work. That means, with 5 dots of Celerity, you need to spend a blood, and then wait untill the next round for your extra actions to kick in. This was the biggest balance point of all... Players were left constantly asking themselves:

"Am I going to need Celerity next round?"
"If I spend it now, and we don't start fighting next round, am I just wasting blood?"
"Should I pump now and start the fight? If I do, and he lives, I'm stuffed politicaly!"
"Should I spend for Celerity this round, or stats this round, seeing as this fight might be over in one punch for all I know?!"
"If I spend this round, and he gets away, I've wasted my blood... But if he doesn't get away, I might get kicked around because I didn't spend!"
"Does HE have Celerity!? Can I out match him?? Can he spend more then one blood a round?! What Generation is this guy anyway!!"

I often found that players who took Celerity spent most of their time being carful not to use it, and by the time they had decided it was time to use it, things were already swung too far in one direction or another for it to be of any use!