So what's it like?

[Disturbation]

Originally Posted by Lady Dragonfly

Oh, please. This game tells you exactly what to do next. It is all in the journal. Go there, talk to such and such. Check over there. Find them (marked on the map, btw). Everybody hated that in Oblivion and suddenly the same people love it in The Wither. Give me a break.

From a Witcher quest I'm currently on: "I gave the mirror to the noonwraith. She stopped attacking me and seems to remember who she used to be. It wasn't enough to put her to rest, though. I need to investigate further. Aren't there any shortcuts to this folktale? I must continue looking for a way to put [the ghost] to rest."

The level of hand holding isn't even close to that of Oblivion's since, in The Witcher, the quest log generally (Or never? Can't remember.) doesn't tell you information you haven't been told in-game while such occurrences are rampant in Oblivion.

Also, the map markers only show you where (and if) you have been told to look for someone, if an NPC is not there you need to use your wits and think about where you might find someone at the time of day you're trying to find him/her. Apparently, some have actually reported this as a bug.

[Lady Dragonfly]

@Xandax

Well, at least there is no instant-teleportation, no level scaling, no popup telling you to equip which sword, use which style etc. So perhaps there is more to the comparison then that.

Why do you need to compare this game to Oblivion at all? Is it a sort of a benchmark? Does it automatically make one game a masterpiece because another one is bad (in your opinion)? I did not play enough, of course, to express the final opinion (and I don't have much spare time, unfortunately, with my busy schedule). So far I am unimpressed, but you and Buck say that one has to play through at least two chapters to really appreciate the game. I trust your opinion, so I will play, and I really want this game turn out a worthy one, eventually, because I was counting days and hours before its release. My husband was making fun of me, but he went to Best Buy during his lunch break to buy this game for me on the first day it was released in the US.

I understand that game design can be different. And our preferences are different. We both know that a lot of people think Fable was the best RPG ever. Or Diablo. Or Oblivion. But what makes my preference better than somebody else's? These are just different games aimed at different gamers. you don't have to buy or play them.

The Witcher is a long-anticipated game. I could not care less about "mature" themes. The "sex" does not bother me (btw, can you review the hard-earned cards? ). The "mature" themes don't make a game mature.
I care for a good story, dialogues, NPC interaction and mystery. I care for stuff fable mentioned in the other thread. I don't care for pretty in-game movies. I don't hate them, I just don't care for them. And that is why I am a bit disappointed. Why do you need to play for 20 hours before you begin to appreciate a game? Why are the dialogue trees so poor? No, I don't expect a drunk speak like Professor Higgins, but I expect more sense and purpose. Why is the game so linear? See, I like the open-world feel. I like to roam and explore and yes, get ambushed, and not to be goaded along a narrow path with invisible fence, even if the guidance is not blatantly obvious. That is just my personal preference though.

And why are my critical comments treated as ludicrous? Yesterday GB news posted a link to a positive review containing a grain of salt:

The game does have some issues, though, including a few crashing problems. It crashed once after zoning (and prepare for zone/load times when you enter and exit buildings) and once when exiting the game.

Some of the other smaller issues with the game include the repetitiveness in the conversations and how – sometimes – the conversations seem to make little sense. Also, when you get to the first boss battle, you may not succeed initially, and failing means having to repeat the cut scene that precedes the battle. This is a bit of a pain.

[Xandax]

Originally Posted by Lady Dragonfly

@Xandax


Why do you need to compare this game to Oblivion at all? Is it a sort of a benchmark?<snip>

I don't - you did.

Originally Posted by Lady Dragonfly

<snip>Why do you need to play for 20 hours before you begin to appreciate a game?

"You" don't, well you perhaps do, but not everybody - it is fine you dislike the game, sure - go ahead it is your prerogative. That is not the point others, and I, was trying to make.
You berated the game's inventory system because you left critical items in storage instead of lugging them with you, and claimed it was poor design,when in fact it was poor inventory management.
That was the point. And for the matter, I played for less then 1 hour before I appreciated the story and thus the game.
Perhaps I was just out looking for something new and fresh then the traditionally run-of-the-mill no surprise and no consequence stories, but this one really stood out to me.

Originally Posted by Lady Dragonfly

<snip>
Why is the game so linear? See, I like the open-world feel. I like to roam and explore and yes, get ambushed, and not to be goaded along a narrow path with invisible fence, even if the guidance is not blatantly obvious. That is just my personal preference though.<snip>

Indeed, and then the Witcher was never a game for you. It is a story driven game, not a free-roaming game, I don't think I ever saw a mention that it was free-roaming.
It is made to follow the story, not the story follow you, so in that aspect it is more like NwN-series/KOTOR-series then Oblivion (and no, I'm not using Oblivion as any benchmark, but an example of a type).

As I said - there is no problem with the fact that you - or others - dislike the game, we all dislike some games.
But when you bring out points, you should surely expect counter points, especially when the points are not a subjective preference, such as your points about the inventory flawed design.

I don't by far mean this game is perfect, the long load time is an issue (although not one which bothers me much), difficulty in controling camera, and some chopped dialogue.
But to me the story is the best I've seen for many years and many of the quests were very well done - and I also liked how it was not "kiddie" in the fact that the world is grim and not polished; the way alchemy is combined with gameplay was good. Combat was interesting enough and simple enough that I did not grow tired of it as I often do in other games and so on...
To me - The Witcher is a quality game from an all but unknown developer - and surpasses many established development hourses attempts at RPGs.

[Ulfang]

Originally Posted by Monolith

Just for the record, I killed the beast on my second attempt on hard.

Took me about eight goes! I had to load a previous save in the end so I could get to a campfire and make the Spectre Oil for my sword. After I had that it was pretty simple and won the first time. Everyone's style is different so it's difficult to say oh it's easy to kill a certain monster and it only took me so many goes etc. Not everyone plays the same, some people reactions are different as well as strategies. I heard several people say they could kill the best in their first go without any help in the from of potions or oils. I personally can't see how that is possible after my many attempts without the spectre oil but it must be possible as people have done it. The fact is not everyone gets the same results.

So I'm sympathetic to Lady Dragonfly's comments as it is very annoying to have to reload after dying and go through the same cutscene. Takes ages! It would have been better if the autosave had come into effect after the cut scene. At the same time after looking over a few of the posts you've made on this thread I agree with a lot of what you're saying too. No one is completely right or wrong it all depends on your experience with the game

Originally Posted by Xandax

Indeed, and then the Witcher was never a game for you. It is a story driven game, not a free-roaming game, I don't think I ever saw a mention that it was free-roaming.
It is made to follow the story, not the story follow you, so in that aspect it is more like NwN-series/KOTOR-series then Oblivion (and no, I'm not using Oblivion as any benchmark, but an example of a type).

As I said - there is no problem with the fact that you - or others - dislike the game, we all dislike some games.
But when you bring out points, you should surely expect counter points, especially when the points are not a subjective preference, such as your points about the inventory flawed design.

I don't by far mean this game is perfect, the long load time is an issue (although not one which bothers me much), difficulty in controling camera, and some chopped dialogue.
But to me the story is the best I've seen for many years and many of the quests were very well done - and I also liked how it was not "kiddie" in the fact that the world is grim and not polished; the way alchemy is combined with gameplay was good. Combat was interesting enough and simple enough that I did not grow tired of it as I often do in other games and so on...
To me - The Witcher is a quality game from an all but unknown developer - and surpasses many established development hourses attempts at RPGs.

My thoughts exactly. People who like the Oblivion style totally non linear experience (I do myself), but can't take any other sort of game style wouldn't enjoy this game. I like both styles for different reasons. I've always been a fan of the Elder Scrolls games and love the non linear gameplay but most people would agree that with it's open endedness it's difficult to make a gripping storyline. Most RPG's will stick to a linear storyline and in a game like The Witcher this is the correct way to go. The storyline is gripping and immersive. It all depends on the game. You can't really compare the game styles as they are on completely different ends of the spectrum.

[Xandax]

Well, you could have paused after the scene and saved it there.

[Ulfang]

Originally Posted by Xandax

Well, you could have paused after the scene and saved it there.

Good point actually I hadn't thought of that DUH As I say I ended up going back to a previous save because I needed to have access to a campfire to mix my spectre oil and couldn't do that after the autosave which was just before the combat situation with the Beast.

[Xandax]

That is one advantage of the game using so many save slots. It's easier to go back a notch without having to keep control with the saves yourself

[Claudius]

In my opinion it is a flaw that there is no autosave before a chapter boss and after long cutscenes. But I don't think it ruins the whole game. I mean hopefully you have saved the game sometime when you were storming the salamandra hideout I have played this game like 50 hours this week and I can't see whats 10 lost minutes (real time) to go to a campfire?

My first play through I lost because I panicked and I admit it was even on easy. So I coated my blade in spectre oil drank a swallow and tawny owl and won. A second problem is that the beast only appears at midnight and your preps can wear off. I'm not sure if mine did but I noticed that on harder difficulty. Its not gamebreaking but it does detract from the realism of the game. I don't mind having to reload now and again but I like to have the feeling that my character has some clue that tells him the beast will attack. I mean I didn't walk around the entire chapter 1 with spectre oil on my blade So it didn't make sense.

I would have been happier if after the dialogue with the townsfolk Alvin started spoke in the beasts tongue and challenged the witcher saying 'I come for you' Then there would be a howl or something and you would be drinking coating and things (Edit: but no pop ups haha) and then the houses would burst in fire with a cutscene (after about 20 seconds to prep/save say your prayers).

Edit: I wonder if there could be a patch (or mod) to add an autosave

[Xandax]

The game actually makes many auto-saves. Try going into your load-save game list, and I believe they are marked as (autosave).
The game saves in different slots constantly, when quick and auto-saving, so you'll have a large list of saves to go back to without needing to control it yourself.

[Ulfang]

Originally Posted by Claudius

In my opinion it is a flaw that there is no autosave before a chapter boss and after long cutscenes.

My game autosaved before the chapter boss. The Beast is the first boss and my game autosaved many times before meeting it. Admittedly it autosaves before the cinematic so unless you save after the cinematic (when you go into combat) then you have to go through the cinematic again but the game definately autosaved before then a I was using the autosave to load several times.

[Claudius]

I'm not saying the game doesn't autosave. And I must have the details wrong. But the issue (flaw) I was raising was that there are numerous cutscenes and no autosave before a hellacious battle. Err I mean the autosave is before the cutscenes.

That wasn't my whole point of course. If you read the whole post what I was trying to say was that yes it didn't make me smile to have to watch the same cutscene but no it doesn't mean the game is ruined.

[Ulfang]

Originally Posted by Claudius

I'm not saying the game doesn't autosave. And I must have the details wrong. But the issue (flaw) I was raising was that there are numerous cutscenes and no autosave before a hellacious battle. Err I mean the autosave is before the cutscenes.

That wasn't my whole point of course. If you read the whole post what I was trying to say was that yes it didn't make me smile to have to watch the same cutscene but no it doesn't mean the game is ruined.

I did read your whole post and wasn't suggesting that was your whole point I was merely commenting on one part of your post

When you said there was no autosave before the chapter boss I was assuming you mean't no autosave at all. But you can still pause the game as you move into combat and save it there if you want to make sure you don't have to go through the whole cinematic again.

[Kenrenk]

I haven't yet played a lot of the game, but my feeling is currently that I'm highly impressed. Some weakness like some keyboard keys with a fixed setup which is highly boring but the game worth to go over it. No key to skip cinematic but you can survive this. A fight system ok but the hit chaining timing is a bit repetitive. Apart that it is impressive after the prologue. Amazing mood from story, graphics and area design. Nice RPG with many cool RPG stuff like the character improvement, the alchemy, tons of stuff to find. Great world setup with a very good density and realism, I see only Gothic 2 merged with NOTR do better. Adult mood without to take it too seriously but immerse you quite well in a grey world. Overall it bring a refreshing original feeling and a mastery to manage and merge in the game story, mini-story, world information and discovering that all feel much more realistic than usual. The grey and adult mood and the amazing graphics and area mood that aren't just fancy really help to setup the realism.

About cinematic : People should take care that the beginning of the game doesn't reflect what follow. The prologue is setup to be the tutorial of the game. So things are simplified and you are more taken by the hand. Also it let you less freedom so this even increase the cinematic rate and setup a strong adventure feeling. But as the prologue/tutorial progress you get more freedom and stuff to do and the game feel more and more like an RPG game with a strong story. In chapter 1 you don't have anymore a ton of cinematic but few and some linked to dialogs and some fights story setup.

About quest hints and quests location of maps : Oblivion cruel failure is quest design is for children bellow 4. Probably targeting mental age of console players. The result is the game constantly take you by the hand and point you do that, go there, and you have no thinking and search to do, in few click you follow the quests orders. But most quests of Oblivion ar"e designed with this system and you can't ignore it or so rarely that you give up anyway to try. It's because quests doesn't give enough information on locations, smart clues, and so on. The compas shwing you even the direction is really a stuff for baby which is boring. Only have the map to open and check to find a target point is different. Even more important in The Witcher most often you have enough information to not use the system but in few cases where you didn't read well some information and skip something. That's all the difference with Oblivion. For sure the task is easier for the Witcher because it hasn't the big world opened approach of Oblivion. It's still a problem in Oblivion and not in The Witcher. Oblivion is an impressive RPG but only good, not bad achievement. But The Witcher is a ton better and has a subtle originality.

[Xandax]

Originally Posted by Kenrenk

<snip>No key to skip cinematic but you can survive this. <snip>

You can left click through dialogue, and "escape" in non-dialogue scenes.

[Kenrenk]

Originally Posted by Xandax

You can left click through dialogue, and "escape" in non-dialogue scenes.

Thanks for the info, Left click and escape, I can't believe I didn't tried it! Ok I enjoy cinematic of the game but I already get some more than once because of a death and then wanted to skip.