Define "murder"... (spoiler)

[Belthan]

So one morning I wake up to find a fella from the DB hovering over me asking if I want to join his club. What?!? Okay, I'm pragmatic and occasionally ruthless, but I never knowingly killed anybody who didn't deserve it. No allies, no bystanders, not even any horses. The very few times I had unfortunate friendly-fire accidents, I reloaded my last save game. Anyway, after he leaves, I check my stats. Sure enough: 1 murder, but no bounty. Then it comes to me.

A while back I did a quest for The Gray Prince, and he was really depressed about what I found out about his origins. Just recently I finished the Arena, and when I challenged him he sounded like his heart wasn't in it. When the gates opened he just stood there. Having been hit first by just about every other combatant I ever fought, I siezed the opportunity and quickly laid him to rest. In retrospect, he clearly had a death wish. I guess that makes me Dr. Kevorkian.

So is that really a murder, or did I accidentally kill an innocent some other time? And more generally, if I decide to run an assassin character at some point, is it possible to murder people without getting a bounty if you don't leave witnesses?

[Fljotsdale]

Similar thing happened to me, several times. It was the Siren's Deception Quest in Anvil. There are three women involved, all of whom are supposed to attack you, so you kill them, and then the Quest-givers come in, and all's right with the outcome. But quite often, the boss lady doesn't attack you, and the proper ending isn't triggered. If you attack and kill her, the ending is triggered, but the game considers you have committed murder. It gives you a message that you have been seen, and later you get a visit.

The only way to avoid it, is to save outside the house and keep trying until the darn woman attacks.

[Xaine]

Yep, that was definitely the murder, Belthan. I clearly remember doing that quest the first time round, and after killing the person you mentioned in your spoiler, the message came up that "An unseen <something> has witnessed your act."

At least it's a murder you can do without attracting a bounty.

[XxBlitzkriegxX]

Yeah, it happens all the time. Hell, some of the fights I did in the arena counted as murders, even though they attacked me first. As for the Gray Prince, you kinda have to expect he'd have a death wish after realizing he's the son of a vampire. (I'd think it would be badass, but he didn't feel the same.)

[WARLORD HECTOR]

Slaying the Grey Prince after completing his quest is always counted as a murder. So you will be always visited by Lucien if thats your first murder.

But I think that this is never a murder because, first you are at a arena and killing there ia some art of sport as second he wish to die afterall.

By the quest from anvil dating house, yes some times one of the girls dont attack you so this is committed as a murder too.

There is also a quest relating on requeing a argonian girl. The quest is given her mother in chorrol (the first merchant west from the north gate). Hackdirt or so is the place... the people of the town is very unfriendly except one man (even if you have not the quest). So after killing the people in the caverns, if you return to the surface and kill the other jerks (And let only the good man alive) you will be arrested because these killings also admitted as a murder.

But I think that none these killings should be admitted as a murder.

[Ashen]

Yes I had this thing as well and I still don't know who I murdered. I was happily napping in my archmage's tower when somebody gave me a little nudge. Boy was I surprised. I did several quests prior to that (including Hackdirt) and had no bounty but one murder. Odd.

Oh about Hackdirt, I let that one guy go and I had no bounty and wasn't arrested. I think you need to let them attack and it's ok then.