Buying the plug-ins

Ashen · #1 (**permalink**) 04-07-2006, 07:31 AM

Just an hour ago a friend of mine asked me if I was going to buy the Orrery plug in and I responded with a stelar lack of intelligence by saying - huh? Of course I've been over to see what Bethy is up to since then and am able to have a slightly more informed opinion.

I must say I have decided against it. I mean if they are going to charge 2$ for them do you know how much that will come out to be?! I mean we have had all these mods for MW and I am sure that once it gets going we will have them for OB as well. I am not too keen of this idea of Bethy's, at all. I mean where does it stop? How many plug ins? Three from what I've heard of for now, but how many next? Heck, it's 6$ already. For the horse armor, we get 2 new textures, so 2 bucks for two textures. Right. Do we pay for the patch next?

Expansion packs, bring them on, I am all for it. But like this, absolutely not. I want my free mods, plug ins and patches, i.e. what was known for MW. Thoughts?

Foss · #2 (**permalink**) 04-07-2006, 07:48 AM

I agree.

I don't like the idea that I have to pay to get something added in the game that for some reason is good to have according to the Devs.
I bought the game, and if they feel it wasen't completely ready they should either not have released it yet or simply make the new mods free of charge.
It smells a bit that a few weeks after the game is released they suddenly come up with some really cool stuff that should be in the game.
I know they already announced that there would be a Horse armor mod before the game was released which is a bit strange. Because IMO, you should make the game as good as it can be, and not hold out features that you can sell afterwards

Second of all, this is a single player game not an MMO. You don't get extra advantage over other players as you would do in an MMO, by buying these things.

mordib · #3 (**permalink**) 04-07-2006, 08:18 AM

im happy to pay for the orriety quest and the tower addon, plus any other map/quest eexpanding mods. things like the horse armour i will not be.

Denethorn · #4 (**permalink**) 04-07-2006, 10:31 AM

My main worry with these purchasable mods is that it will divide the third party modding community; in that some mods will require horse armour etc. Maybe not now when the mods are so 'lite' but if more advanced official mods are released, which contain meshes which modders wish to use, then it can complicate things.

Ashen · #5 (**permalink**) 04-07-2006, 02:53 PM

Yes, of course that is one of the main issues but not the only one when it comes to third party mods. From what I've been reading lately it is a question whether we will have mods like those in MW thanks to the issues with the TES CS.

And I mean this Orrery thing (I am not even going to comment on the armor) - the door at the Arc. Uni. marked as Orrery that you need a key for - I thought that sooner or later a quest regarding this will pop up. And now we see that it doesn't lead anywhere but that they simply didn't finish that on time. So now, they are going to sell it, as a new mod, because they didn't finish it on time and hey lets get more money. Well heck no. I mean as Foss here says put back the release date but finish the game, or give the mod for free. But some of us payed 60$ for it and now we have to pay more for what should have been in the game, obviously. What else are they holding out on?

Very bad move IMO. Am really disappointed.

fullymodo · #6 (**permalink**) 04-07-2006, 03:19 PM

This is a really horrible precedent. We gladly pay the $80 for Oblivion, and I'm sure we all appreciate the tremendous amount of work and effort that went into a title of its caliber; but to start charging for tiny little additions smacks of "cash grab" to me. It smells like corporate mentality -- and it stinks.
If they release no expansion packs, and just offer the upgrades and extra quests piecemeal, that's OK, but still dubious (I'd bet you'll end up paying more for less that way); but, if they also tack on expansion packs such as Bloodmoon and Tribunal for TESIII and charge us again... well, you see my point.
I'm boycotting the additions from Bethesda, as I hope you will too. I'm eager to see what the modding community comes out with for free -- or are we to pay for these now? Will modders need to purchase a license from Bethesda?

Hey, Bethesda, I've got some great ideas! How about, like after a month or so of playing, you get a message from the company saying "send us $20 or your character gets it". If you don't cough up and re-activate, your game fatally crashes. You could put that in the next patch (for which you could charge us $5 each, of course)! That would be awesome! E-ransom!

Ashen · #7 (**permalink**) 04-07-2006, 03:25 PM

Nah, the third party mods have to be free, otherwise it's illigal. I mean I want to be cool-headed about this. And honestly I wouldn't care except to not buy these mods and think really carefully next time I want to buy something from Bethy. The talk about issues with the possible really big mods is what annoys me terribly, especially in the light of this.

fable · #8 (**permalink**) 04-07-2006, 03:55 PM

I'm neither for it nor against it, but I do think devoting the energies of even five staff people to turning out these plug-ins when the product has just been placed on the market will inevitably give rise to the question, "Did you just hold this content back from the final code to make more money?" It seems as though Bethsoft is seeking a way to turn what the player modding community has done for free over the last four years to their personal monetary advantage--and that strikes me as rather cynical.

EDIT: I should add that I will not be buying any of these official plug-ins. Bethsoft already has my money for the game, and that should be enough for them.

stillodium · #9 (**permalink**) 04-07-2006, 04:19 PM

For one thing i hope this thread doesnt come to resemble those on the official forums...

I have to say i am quite annoyed myself, 2$ for horse armor is perplexing, if i didn't know better i'd say they were bankrupt or something and this was a cry for help, not to mention a very delicate precedent (especially since chances are it's gonna be a success)...but...given the fact that all these plugins are optional and marginal (story/gameplay wise) i can't help noticing the good side, a fair chunk of the developers is going to stay actively involved in modding.

I certainly will not buy the horse armor, the Orrery seems interesting and i can say that i will pay 2 bucks for the tower. Professional mods that do not conflict and that i hope will become quite interesting further down the line is all in all a good thing.

The only downside would be if they should decide to kill off the competition by not releasing an exporter, but i don't see that happening, it would make a way too brutal statement and they certainly could not afford it.

All in all great mods from the community and optional 2 $ mods from the developers themselves, not my idea of the perfect deal but given the need for plugins on the console and Bethesda's inability of giving them free (after all Microsoft takes a share of everithing) i find it to be quite equitable.

fable · #10 (**permalink**) 04-07-2006, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stillodium

For one thing i hope this thread doesnt come to resemble those on the official forums...

It won't. The forum rules don't allow it to degenerate into flames. If any posts do, they will be removed, and the posters warned.

Ashen · #11 (**permalink**) 04-09-2006, 07:35 AM

I think we can talk nicely enough

I was talking to a lot of people I know who are into games etc about this new development. And some of them do use pirated copies except for games like these, or NWN etc. They actually buy those, from what I gather they feel the work is well worth the price. Let's face it through, a decent net connection and no price at all so it is good to see that the games are actually being bought.

And of course no suprise there, most of them are rather miffed by this move. Guess what the reaction is? There's always torrents. I think Bethy is really doing itself a huge disservice by asking for money for these mods so soon after release, it is turning away it's rather faithful fans.

stillodium · #12 (**permalink**) 04-09-2006, 10:57 AM

Indeed... the torrents.

Let's face it, unless you are new to the net/computer thing and you still believe that the FBI/Interpol will get you

you are bound to "get curious". Most times they even appear a week before the release date on the net.

That said i agree completely, very bad move by them, frankly seeing the path oblivion takes the series (as a gaming experience), and the way they handled the distress in the modding comunity really puts one off.

It would never even cross my mind not to buy a BioWare or Obsidian game, be it for the money or not they actually listen, show some common sense transparency and ultimately show you they care by releasing another great product, THE product, cause though i must admit Olivion is a good game it certainly wasn't what i payed for when i bought the next in line after Morrowind.

I still find Bethesda to be a great games developer, it's just becoming hard not to see them as a single-purpose corporation.

Ashen · #13 (**permalink**) 04-19-2006, 06:09 PM

Well a friend decided to fork out cash for the Orrery and I just got back from his place where I got to do the quest - *spoilers ahead*

It consists of a single quest that we completed in about 20 minutes, some very weak fights, no puzzles, nothing really to solve, just kill some people and collect 4 items. The orrery is nicely done - I got vertigo though from it - but the spells are nothing special, plus you can only have one at a time, not all.

So all in all, I am sticking to my original thoughts, not worth it at all, and I seriously think that there is no way they couldn't have added this for the game they sold. They just didn't want to.

Tricky · #14 (**permalink**) 04-19-2006, 06:39 PM

I'd understand it if this was something like a Bloodmoon expansion. But for this I won't pay. But honestly, as far as buying rediculous stuff goes, in today's MMO oriented gaming economy this hardly comes off as unusual anymore. Except for the part that this isn't an MMO of course.
Although, these things aren't limited to gaming. Do you have any idea how much money is made on downloading tunes/pictures for your cellphone? All this.. micro marketing or whatever you want to call it is just a fad.
I can respect Bethesda for trying to tag along with those giants. It's a stupid experiment, of course, but I can level with the idea of trying.

fable · #15 (**permalink**) 04-19-2006, 06:45 PM

It's not just a stupid idea, it's terrible PR. If you owned a company that put out a game without mods it just might work, but with a huge third party mod community, it gives the impression of a direct slap-in-the-face. It looks like Bethsoft (whether true or not) is going into direct competition with modders, this after having grabbed some of the best modding community's ideas in Morrowind for its own in Oblivion. There are a lot of displeased modders and mod users out there, and I really don't expect this level of displeasure to die down for some time to come.