Help?

[Sailor Saturn]

@HLD Well, since my dad's willing(more like, insistant!) to buy the comp for me, I'm not as worried about price now.

[Sailor Saturn]

*sigh* I tried uninstalling the DVD-ROM and CD-ROM drives, but when I restarted, the computer didn't detect new hardware. It just acted like they hadn't been uninstalled. In fact, they're still installed. Anyone know why it's doing this?

[HighLordDave]

It could be because you have either a bad IDE controller or a bad IDE cable. Check to make sure that the cables are seated securely in the drives and on the motherboard. Also make sure that the jumpers on one drive are set to "Master" and the other is set to "Slave".

I take it the computer will still boot to the hard drive? That means that at least one of you IDE channels is good. When you re-seat the cables, change the cables on the motherboard so that the hard drive cable is seated where the optical drives were and vice-versa. If the hard drive still boots, then the cable is okay and the IDE controller is fine too. That would lead me to believe that there is a problem with the drives, not the motherboard.

If you switch the connections on the motherboard and the hard drive does not boot, then you have either a bad cable (they cost about $10 at Circuit City of CompUSA) or a bad IDE controller. In that case, you will either need to get a new motherboard or IDE controller expansion card.

[Sailor Saturn]

Originally posted by HighLordDave:
<STRONG>It could be because you have either a bad IDE controller or a bad IDE cable. Check to make sure that the cables are seated securely in the drives and on the motherboard. Also make sure that the jumpers on one drive are set to "Master" and the other is set to "Slave".</STRONG>

Could you explain this in more detail, please?

<STRONG>I take it the computer will still boot to the hard drive? That means that at least one of you IDE channels is good. When you re-seat the cables, change the cables on the motherboard so that the hard drive cable is seated where the optical drives were and vice-versa. If the hard drive still boots, then the cable is okay and the IDE controller is fine too. That would lead me to believe that there is a problem with the drives, not the motherboard.

If you switch the connections on the motherboard and the hard drive does not boot, then you have either a bad cable (they cost about $10 at Circuit City of CompUSA) or a bad IDE controller. In that case, you will either need to get a new motherboard or IDE controller expansion card.</STRONG>

I am replacing the motherboard. My dad ordered me a new computer(case, motherboard, processor, and 128MB RAM) and it should be arriving sometime within this next week. Once I add in what I've got already, I'll have a computer with a P4 1.5Ghz processor, 384MB RAM, 40GB hard drive, and 64MB video card. I just hope I'm able to get the DVD-ROM to work.

[ThorinOakensfield]

Originally posted by Shadow Sandrock:
<STRONG>Did we ask you to spam her thread when she's asking for help?

@Sailor: Oh boy, that is never good... maybe try putting in several different kinds of discs, see what'll get read and what won't (i.e. programs, a CD-R, a music CD...)</STRONG>

jeez Loius, i am guessing that you Sailor's real life friend?

[HighLordDave]

Originally posted by Sailor Saturn:
<STRONG>I'll have a computer with a P4 1.5Ghz processor, 384MB RAM, 40GB hard drive, and 64MB video card.</STRONG>

You do realise that you will not be able to use the memory that is in your current machine in your new machine, right? (I am assuming that you have an Intel P2 or AMD K6-2 based system; you did say it was three years old or so). The Pentium and K6 processors use the standard PC100/133 DIMM (Dual Inline Memory Module). The P4 uses RDRAM mounted on a RIMM (Rambus Inline Memory Module). The two are not compatible. However, the RIMM chip is much more efficient and runs at a higher clock speed, so having "only" 128 MB of RDRAM is preferable to having 256 MB of PC133 SDRAM. You should be able to strip everything else out of your old computer and use it in the new one.

<STRONG>

Could you explain this in more detail, please? </STRONG>

I am going to assume that you want to know more about the IDE Master and IDE Slave functions. This is the long version, so forgive me for not being brief.

When your computer boots, the BIOS (Basic Input/Output System) is going to load from the motherboard and look for an operating system to boot. In most cases, the first place it looks is the floppy disk drive (FDD), then to the hard disk drive (HDD) and then the optical disk drive (ODD; your CD/DVD-ROM). Some BIOS will also look to boot from a SCSI (Small Computer Systems Interface; pronounced "scuzzy") drive. You probably don't have (and don't need) SCSI, so we won't worry about that.

The FDD, HDD and ODD are all connected to your motherboard by cables. On your motherboard you will see three connectors for these drives. The leads on the back of a FDD will only connect to a FDD cable which will only attach to the FDD controller on your motherboard.

Most HDDs and ODDs connect to the motherboard with IDE (Integrated Drive Electronics) cables. IDE cables have three connectors; one seats on the motherboard and the other two can be attached to one device each. Your motherboard probably has two IDE channels so it can suppport a total of four IDE devices.

There are three basic standards for data throughput over an IDE channel: ATA-100, ATA-66 and ATA-33. Most new HDDs operate at the ATA-100 standard, while most ODDs operate at the ATA-33 speed (optical drives don't read as fast as magnetic drives). When placing drives on an IDE channel, you should never mix devices with different throughput. That is, put your ODDs on one channel and your HDDs on another. If you put an ATA-100 HDD on the same IDE channel as an ATA-33 CD-RW, data will move through the channel at the slower speed. Likewise, if you have an ATA-100 HDD and an ATA-66 HDD, you should not have them both in your computer on the same IDE channel. There is a noticable performance hit if you do.

When you put more than one IDE device on the same channel, one is always the Master and the other is the Slave (If Aegis has made it this far through the post, he may have confused it with an S&M reference and is probably salivating right about now; if he hasn't, don't tell our Canadian friend that I just took a shot at him). When the BIOS load, it is going to look to boot first from the Master drive, and if it can't find an operating system there, it will go to the Slave and look for an OS. This applies to both HDDs and ODDs (some CDs are bootable such as the standard Windows 98SE disk).

If you look on the back of an IDE drive, you will see three things: the power connector, the IDE cable connector and a place where you set a jumper to determine the drive's role in your computer's operation. There are three basic jumper settings: Master, Slave and Cable Select.

If you look at the documentation that came with your HDD and ODDs, it will tell you how to set the jumpers on the drive. If you've lost that paperwork, go to the drive's manufacturer's webpage, click on "Support" and find a link to the documentation.

I prefer to set my drives manually with the jumpers, but you can buy IDE cables that will do it for you. If you have a Cable Select cable, one end will seat on the motherboard, the connector in the middle is the Slave and the connector on the other end is the Master. They're usually labled with pull tabs so you don't seat the Master connector on the motherboard.

Once you have all of this stuff set up in your case, go into the "Setup" in your BIOS the first time your computer boots and make sure that all of your settings are okay. You want to make sure that the HDD that is going to boot is the Master drive on one of your IDE channels and that the computer will look to boot from the HDD before it goes to the ODDs. You also generally want to set the Master ODD as the one with the faster read speed, but setting the ODD Master/Slave is less important than for the HDD. However, you need to make sure that each channel has a Master and a Slave; you computer will not function if they are not accounted for (or so I'm told; I've never tried).

That's the roundabout explanation of IDE Masters and Slaves. There will be a quiz next time. Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, but football was on today.

[Sailor Saturn]

Originally posted by HighLordDave:
<STRONG>You do realise that you will not be able to use the memory that is in your current machine in your new machine, right? (I am assuming that you have an Intel P2 or AMD K6-2 based system; you did say it was three years old or so). The Pentium and K6 processors use the standard PC100/133 DIMM (Dual Inline Memory Module). The P4 uses RDRAM mounted on a RIMM (Rambus Inline Memory Module). The two are not compatible. However, the RIMM chip is much more efficient and runs at a higher clock speed, so having "only" 128 MB of RDRAM is preferable to having 256 MB of PC133 SDRAM. You should be able to strip everything else out of your old computer and use it in the new one.</STRONG>

I'm going to reply to this first, then read the rest of the post. This way I don't forget what I want to say here.

I looked at the specifications when my dad was looking at computers online. Remembering how dad had to order RAM from Gateway that was compatible with his computer, I checked what type of RAM the comps we were looking at had and compared it to the RAM that we bought at Sam's(128MB chips, which are currently in the computer I've got) and kept looking until we found one that matched and that's what we ordered.

[Sailor Saturn]

Originally posted by HighLordDave:
<STRONG>I am going to assume that you want to know more about the IDE Master and IDE Slave functions. This is the long version, so forgive me for not being brief.

When your computer boots, the BIOS (Basic Input/Output System) is going to load from the motherboard and look for an operating system to boot. In most cases, the first place it looks is the floppy disk drive (FDD), then to the hard disk drive (HDD) and then the optical disk drive (ODD; your CD/DVD-ROM). Some BIOS will also look to boot from a SCSI (Small Computer Systems Interface; pronounced "scuzzy") drive. You probably don't have (and don't need) SCSI, so we won't worry about that.

The FDD, HDD and ODD are all connected to your motherboard by cables. On your motherboard you will see three connectors for these drives. The leads on the back of a FDD will only connect to a FDD cable which will only attach to the FDD controller on your motherboard.

Most HDDs and ODDs connect to the motherboard with IDE (Integrated Drive Electronics) cables. IDE cables have three connectors; one seats on the motherboard and the other two can be attached to one device each. Your motherboard probably has two IDE channels so it can suppport a total of four IDE devices.

There are three basic standards for data throughput over an IDE channel: ATA-100, ATA-66 and ATA-33. Most new HDDs operate at the ATA-100 standard, while most ODDs operate at the ATA-33 speed (optical drives don't read as fast as magnetic drives). When placing drives on an IDE channel, you should never mix devices with different throughput. That is, put your ODDs on one channel and your HDDs on another. If you put an ATA-100 HDD on the same IDE channel as an ATA-33 CD-RW, data will move through the channel at the slower speed. Likewise, if you have an ATA-100 HDD and an ATA-66 HDD, you should not have them both in your computer on the same IDE channel. There is a noticable performance hit if you do.

When you put more than one IDE device on the same channel, one is always the Master and the other is the Slave (If Aegis has made it this far through the post, he may have confused it with an S&M reference and is probably salivating right about now; if he hasn't, don't tell our Canadian friend that I just took a shot at him). When the BIOS load, it is going to look to boot first from the Master drive, and if it can't find an operating system there, it will go to the Slave and look for an OS. This applies to both HDDs and ODDs (some CDs are bootable such as the standard Windows 98SE disk).

If you look on the back of an IDE drive, you will see three things: the power connector, the IDE cable connector and a place where you set a jumper to determine the drive's role in your computer's operation. There are three basic jumper settings: Master, Slave and Cable Select.

If you look at the documentation that came with your HDD and ODDs, it will tell you how to set the jumpers on the drive. If you've lost that paperwork, go to the drive's manufacturer's webpage, click on "Support" and find a link to the documentation.

I prefer to set my drives manually with the jumpers, but you can buy IDE cables that will do it for you. If you have a Cable Select cable, one end will seat on the motherboard, the connector in the middle is the Slave and the connector on the other end is the Master. They're usually labled with pull tabs so you don't seat the Master connector on the motherboard.

Once you have all of this stuff set up in your case, go into the "Setup" in your BIOS the first time your computer boots and make sure that all of your settings are okay. You want to make sure that the HDD that is going to boot is the Master drive on one of your IDE channels and that the computer will look to boot from the HDD before it goes to the ODDs. You also generally want to set the Master ODD as the one with the faster read speed, but setting the ODD Master/Slave is less important than for the HDD. However, you need to make sure that each channel has a Master and a Slave; you computer will not function if they are not accounted for (or so I'm told; I've never tried).

That's the roundabout explanation of IDE Masters and Slaves. There will be a quiz next time. Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, but football was on today.</STRONG>

Okay, I remember that about the master/slave thing from when I added the 40 gig hard drive, though it didn't explain near as much as you did. I'll have to take a look at the Optical drives to see if they're set right. Thanks for the help, HLD. Even if it doesn't fix the problem, I am learning a lot about how the computer is built, which will hopefully be helpful in the future, especially since I'm majoring in Computer Science.

[Sailor Saturn]

Bleah, about the only part of my computer I'm not replacing now is...er...well...actually, I'm replacing everything now. My keyboard's almost dead, stops working completely periodically. Last night, my monitor went out. The screen started shrinking horizontally and extending vertically, then smoke started coming out the top. Luckily, it didn't start a fire. So, I'm getting a new 17" flatscreen(not LCD) monitor.

[Alienbob]

what did you spill coffee on it or something?

[Sailor Saturn]

Originally posted by Alienbob
what did you spill coffee on it or something?

Nope. My computer's over three years old and has, obviously, just decided to die, but that's fine with me. With my new computer, I'll be able to play BG2 at it's maximum abilities.

[Alienbob]

yeah i know what you mean. when i first got BG2 the only pc available to me was a 200mhz pentium with crappy onboard graphics. then when i bought a 900mhz with a geforce 2 mx. needless to say the performance improved a lot. though it did take a little getting used to going from a frame rate of 20 to whatever i have it at now, 30 i think. i was amazed that everything could move so fast.

[Sailor Saturn]

Originally posted by Alienbob
yeah i know what you mean. when i first got BG2 the only pc available to me was a 200mhz pentium with crappy onboard graphics. then when i bought a 900mhz with a geforce 2 mx. needless to say the performance improved a lot. though it did take a little getting used to going from a frame rate of 20 to whatever i have it at now, 30 i think. i was amazed that everything could move so fast.

Well, my new computer is going to arrive sometime today. Can't wait to get it all hooked up. I just hope I don't have too much trouble with it. I'm worn out from having to fix the networking problems that were caused today when my dad installed Windows XP on his computer. *sigh*

[HighLordDave]

Originally posted by Sailor Saturn


I'm worn out from having to fix the networking problems that were caused today when my dad installed Windows XP on his computer. *sigh*

What on earth possessed him to go to Windows XP? And why did you let him?

[Mr Sleep]

Originally posted by Sailor Saturn


Nope. My computer's over three years old and has, obviously, just decided to die, but that's fine with me. With my new computer, I'll be able to play BG2 at it's maximum abilities.

I recently upgraded mine and i have to say that IWD (with HoW) is much better looking than BG2