Honest Answers, Everyone

[Darth Zenemij]

What if you killed the One, I did it a few times... I think you have the wrong thread.

[mrthingyx]

Originally Posted by Darth Zenemij

Agreed Chim. Revan should be dead. I've been thinking about it and you should findhim remains somewherer.

Going on general Star Wars trivia/lore, killing Revan would either do irreparable damage to Bastila (assuming, as the canonical ending to KOTOR i suggests she's still alive and had been redeemed), kill her as well or at least be significant enough in the telepathic sense as to let her know something funky was afoot. But then, that could be a premise for the third installment... Bastila has suffered one of the above and you set off to find out what's happened... Also, killing a 'wound in the Force' wouldn't be a clever thing, going by Kreia's inferences.

[Darth Zenemij]

Revan could have died from something natrual or something, (s)he could have died of old age, or something like that. And forget bastila, she should have been dead allready also.

[Chimaera182]

Originally Posted by mrthingyx

Going on general Star Wars trivia/lore, killing Revan would either do irreparable damage to Bastila (assuming, as the canonical ending to KOTOR i suggests she's still alive and had been redeemed), kill her as well or at least be significant enough in the telepathic sense as to let her know something funky was afoot. But then, that could be a premise for the third installment... Bastila has suffered one of the above and you set off to find out what's happened... Also, killing a 'wound in the Force' wouldn't be a clever thing, going by Kreia's inferences.

Maybe not. Kreia said that betraying someone could sever a Force bond, as it is implied happened to Kreia/Exile. Also, their minds are shielded during combat, so they wouldn't feel the pain the other endured. If that's the case, when Bastila fell to the dark side and became Malak's apprentice, she betrayed Revan and attacked him, and the bond could be severed. Also, if the bond is severed, Bastila might not even notice if Revan were standing next to her. And even if the bond wasn't severed, the bond wasn't anywhere near as strong as it was between the Exile and Kreia, so it might not harm Bastila if Revan died.

[Darth Zenemij]

Originally Posted by Chimaera182

Maybe not. Kreia said that betraying someone could sever a Force bond, as it is implied happened to Kreia/Exile. Also, their minds are shielded during combat, so they wouldn't feel the pain the other endured. If that's the case, when Bastila fell to the dark side and became Malak's apprentice, she betrayed Revan and attacked him, and the bond could be severed. Also, if the bond is severed, Bastila might not even notice if Revan were standing next to her. And even if the bond wasn't severed, the bond wasn't anywhere near as strong as it was between the Exile and Kreia, so it might not harm Bastila if Revan died.

Exactly, you beat me to it Chmaera.

[mrthingyx]

Sure thing - it's one of many possibilites, however. Yes, Bastila fell to the dark side to become Malak's coffee-girl but in KOTOR II she still speaks of the bond being present despite that. And I'll definately agree that the bond is nowhere near as strong as Kreia/Exile, as surely Revan would have noticed when Malak was "whetting Bastila's appetite," so to speak.

However, there are some interesting parts to this which I found out again after playing TSL for the fourth/fifth time...

[color=DimGray]T3 went with Revan to the borders of known space to look for the terrible threat that was lying in wait, hidden from the Republic. Bastila asked T3 - in the case of Revan being killed or not being found - to return to known space and find any remaining Force users to help him. That's where Kreia (at first) and then the Exile come in. So I guess one can infer that Revan has completely vanished or been killed... and it's up to somebody in the third game (with a bit of luck) to find him.[/COLOU]

I think part of the desire for Revan to return in the third game is disbelief that he can be killed (yes, I know I'm using 'him,' but that's what Lucasarts say...), seeing as he pretty much single-handedly polished the floor of the Star Forge with Malak's badly tatooed head. As such, the prospect of him being killed is hard to grasp.

However, both possibilities are equally likely - it's just a case of preference.

[Hill-Shatar]

Overall it seems like it would seem that people agree that Revan is NOT the best person to play as. Not only would the game be overly repetitive, it would almost be equally impossible NOT to have him in the game. revan was the leading cause in the first one and he was a topic of interest in the second one. It makes sence that a charcter as dynamic ass/he would have to come back, or at least some important information on what he was doing. But that would leave this open ended. What the ending of KOTOR II was based around was what would happen to your charatcers and what Revan had done, which is go off to the unknown areas to find the true sith threat, even if it is such a belief. You already know it is a place that corrupts any who walk on its surface, and that the Trayus academy was one of them,m as hinted by Kreia. They either have to find a whole new threat or either become repetitive, which would be unpopular, or they could continue the journey.

Revan is an instrumental part of this series. however, playing him would also be impossible. The portraits for the game were varied and widespread, which many different class types and variables for how he would appear, and act, and what abilities he would have, not to mention that the charatcer may be amle or female. Playing him would be nearly impossible, and evcen if you could, he woukld not be the same charatcer as you would remeber. He got his memory back, slowly but surely. He now remembers everything. If you were LS when you played KOTOR, then he may be darkside from the corruption of his quest.

The best way for this game to work, in my opinion, whihc im not sure many others agree with, would be to have him as an NPC you would never meet, but talk through an aprentice of his, or maybe a droid, as GOTO, although perhaps a little more helpful and less annoying, such as T3 or Hk-47. None of us really know what else happened to T3, considering he knew more then he let out in KOTOR 2, and we already know that HK has a variey of programs that revolve around Revan.

Revan is a required charatcer, not because people want him, but because what many storylines and conversations revolved around was Revan.

The game was also made in a way that it was kind of like generations of charatcers. You have the experienced warriors, such as bastila, carth, hk, canderous and many other who are all related in many ways, from where they lived, like on Taris with Juhani and Mission, to relationships and aquaintences, showed up in the first one with strong ties in the end, as well as some in the beginning. They joined together and finished a quest.

then you have the second group, more like those who are following in the footsteps. The exile finding the aweful truth behind his powers, and you were a general second to Revan. You have a guy who fought on the side of the sith in the war, instead of the republic, like carth. You idolized Revan, no matter what path you took, as did many of your party members. albeit there were many differences, you can find similarities in what many of the charatcers act and what they have done, and who they are, and some of them even come back, like mandalore, but stronger.

It makes sense that the next group will have to also be like this, but even more different then the first. The game relies on this, with the current hero idolizing the past, or commemorating war, or even following closly with past wars. (did that make sense?). Even in the first KOTOR, your cgaratcer was constatly bombarded with knowledge of the mandalorian wars and the war with Exar Kun. What made the first game so dynamic was that you knew nothing. what made the next game not as strong as the first one is that you already knew so much that many conversations were pointless. What we need is new charatcers with ties to the past, but not so strong that it revolves around many of them, save Revan, which is needed.

Conclusion: Revan is a NPC powerful jedi that you never (maybe rarely with a mask and voice modification, as mentioned above) meet in person, but speak to through other people, whether it be Carth or an apprentice, or a droid. you should be the next generation or roup of people who try to followin the footsteps of those before you, but in a different way, and few of your charcters, or for the best results, none are playable charatcers in the past, but maybe related( again, Dustil, as im mentioned on the first page and others have mentioned as well).

And we do know somewhat of what happened to Carth, Bastila and Revan, as was mentioned in the cutscene when you speak to Admiral Onasi. We know they want to find Revan, but as Canderous they were ordered to stay behind. (Remeber, Kreia trying to convice madalore that Revan betryed him or something on Dxun?)

[Darth Zenemij]

I couldn't have said it better myself! And yes I remember Kriea with mandalore. I absolutly agree with everything you posted, I really couldn't have said it better myself.

[andvagor]

err... ok... i never played the first game... but isnt your conclusion EXACTLY what happened in the second one? i personally came to a different conclusion, which i am very surprised to find no one else notice, i would personally have revan in the game as a party member, we can get revan to answear all of the questions quick, and easy, the storyline can continue with the "real" sith threat, revan is still in the game, and so many people are happy, but we can always simply ignore him/her if we dont like him/her, as i did with g0t0 in kotor 2, so thats kept a large majority happy as well, reven is key to the story line, and many people want to see him, but many people dont, i would just have it like this so it would be like a side quest. i would bring back the droids because they are always happy and funny to have around, hk74's oppressive/depressive/pessimistic black humour demanour always amused me. t4 would keep in the series and be the usual coffee machine on wheels... hmm... that would be a nice addition to the game. we can bring back bastilla and handmaiden and have them both to keep everyone happy. bring back atton and carth to keep people happy, they would probably make good friends. bring along bao-dur as an npc, that would be nice. and this has probably solved several things already. keep the exile as the main character but forget all of that useless mind wipe story line and continue on with the destruction of the super sith evil mastermind genieouses of doom stuff. then we can simply keep everything nice and dandy

[mrthingyx]

Playing either the Exile or Revan as the PC is impossible from a programmer's point of view, though - it makes the game very difficult to get into for first timers (yes, I know the majority will have played the first and second, but I started with the secon... so naturally, there will be people who start with the third) and very boring for veterans. Why? Because the PC is already too powerful - there is no learning curve and no appreciation of the hard work that must be put in to progression.

Hill put it perfectly: Revan and the Exile MUSt feature in the third game on some level purely because of their pivotal roles in this part of the Star Wars saga... any Jedi who comes to prominence in the third will be taught of the Exile who gave up the Force and returned to it (Handmaiden), of Revan who turned from the dark side (albeit when forced to) to be redeemed by saving the galaxy, etc. They will be NPCs at best but - as already stated - due to the blessing and curse that is character customisation, will probably not feature as playable individuals. Unless Obsidian/Bioware bite the bullet and stick decide to stick with the canonical endings to the respective stories or are very, very, very clever in their scripting.

[Hill-Shatar]

I feel special now. Oh great, its going to my head. and its T3, andvagor, not T4.

You seem bent on bringing back so many of the older characters from the first and second games. I can see how many of the newer players would like to see the old ones. Were you speaking about adding them as NPCs? Cause if you were, then I can see having one or two of them show up. But with the pssoble exclusion of Carth, as admiral onasi (if Revan repented), none of these charatcers, other than if they were turned into jedi, would show up, and even then, the chances of meeting mira, and atton, may not be all that great.

you have to remember that the many actions taken in the game, such as killing the jedi masters, or staying on Trayus academy to use the dark side, affects every charatcer. Few charatcers get out of this the same either way. The handmaiden is one, and Carth Onasi was another, but as you see, the questions at the beginning of the second game influenced whether or not he would appear. Imagine if you had to answer who knows how many questions to get the charatcers right.

And the exile has the same problems as Revan. How did he turn out? If he walked the path of the light, did he fall? If he walked the path of darkness, did he repent? What did he, or she, which is also complicated, look like? Will they show a bunch of portraits at the beginning of the game, and ask(kind of like atton) which one was the exile? The exile, rmember, didnt wear a face mask. The game would be incredibly complex if you tried all the combinations. If admiral onasi comes back and talks about the female, exile, using the pronoun she instead of he and all, may make it even more different. Some male charatcermay be surprised to be beaten in the butt by some female charatcer and get chastised. the whle conversation may be different between many of the charatcers would be different, from if they were your friends or not, did you have enough influence with them, were you romantic with them, if they were still alive at the end of the game, what happened at the end of the game, being disgusted by past actions, each would affect every single one of the NPCs conversations with each other.

Provided there is a chance to vbring some back, as was demonstrated in the second game.

My conclusion isnt exactly what happened in the last game. You were asked to find Revan by his friends, they didnt even know if he was still alive. And as for the genration thing, its how the game works, a pattern I noticed. Most can only assume that they will incorporate it into future games and designs, plus there is logic about how that works, as was mentioned.

[Darth Reven]

I dont think u could have revan back as him because at the end of the forst kotor it was annouchend tht the pc revan (as dark anyway) is invinsible however u could have like child versions of revan and bastilla or if female reven in kotor, child force sensitive carth as well as a female revan bearing in mind tht if u made this game 10 yrs after the events of kotor2 u could meet the ds exile on malachor on the way to following there father/mother's path to the dark side this could also incorperate the popular padawan idea.

ps if u want to comment on this idea please pm me as im going on holiday tomoz and wont be one till next saturday

[Hill-Shatar]

I rarely play the LS, and many people, as you may have read from other threads, play the LS, and rarely follow the Ds, except once or twice for fun (and we all like to talk about that, dont we ). In any case, it only works for the DS, maybe, considering what you did in the game. I dont think it would work. Unless, like Zenimej said, they make a random person and give him the name Revan.

[Chimaera182]

For myself, I rarely ever go LS. I've probably played KotOR II 9 times, and only two of those times did I come out a Jedi: I saved after escaped Peragus, did one game as a 100% dark sider, beat the snot out of the game, then started over on Telos and went light sider. I thought it was boring being a Jedi. And I know someone who just can't bring himself to be a dark sider in KotOR I or II; and yet, he feels very comfortable playing Grand Theft Auto and shooting cops and carving up pedestrians with a chainsaw. Frankly, I prefer the middleground, which I'm going to try to stick to 100% in my latest game; I wanna see what happens if I stay neutral and don't stray so far that I get to see Visas talk to her master.

Well, if we have to see Revan as an NPC, and Revan does have that mask, maybe you'll have an Atton moment: you'll talk to someone about Revan and get to choose whether Revan was male or female. After that, if you run into Revan later in the game, their voice will reflect the choice you made, so as to not need the voice scrambling deal I mentioned. That'd probably cost more for two actors to do the script for one character, so something tells me that's not likely.

The same can be said for the Exile; if you have a conversation about the Exile--who will henceforth be known ONLY as the Exile, since s/he didn't have a fixed name--and you indicate the Exile was male or female, certain characters will show up later in KotOR III. If you're hellbent on the return of people from the old games, then that will decide if you meet up with Handmaiden or Disciple. But to have any of them as party members is just not going to happen; any possible Jedi in your party would have been powerful to some certain point by the end of KotOR II, and if they join you in KotOR III they'd very likely have been weakend severely to join you (if they'll even be Jedi at all). There's just too many variables to decide on for old characters to rejoin. Keeping it simple's the way to go: it's easier to do and likely will equal less work and less money spent, and the business of Lucasarts and whoever they contract KotOR III out to is not to use up money but to make it (the rush job of KotOR II screams as much).

[Turambar]

I have a suggestion that would be fairly user friendly, even though it might suck for the programmers. If Revan and/or the Exile show up in KOTOR III (which I am convinced should occur, though to what degree I do not know) you simply have more pages at the beginning set up of the game. In additon to designing your character (whoever that will be) you also fill out similar stats for Revan and the Exile. Obviously it would be more indepth to include LS or DS, what kind of powers and feats you would have, etc. This would solve a lot of the "What would Revan look like?" and "It wouldn't be the same Revan you know" objections.