Skills - what's the point?

[sun_facer]

Hi all!

Lemme start by reminding all that kotor is developed by Bioware. If u have played NWN before, you would also realise that skills are not useful in survival. In fact, just think with me for a moment - what use is Awareness for? Comeon... u want to go around looking for mines?
Spoiler
There are absolutely no cloaked enemies! Those mandalorians in the lower shadowlands show up by a trigger, not by awareness skill. However, this is also the case in NWN.

But that is the thing about saying skills are useless. I assume u are saying that skills are useless for survival in combat. Skills are mostly not required in combat. But they are required to ADVANCE PLOTS.

Like what has been already said. If combat is all that is desired, then RPG is not the genre for you. RPG is about characters and plots... afterall, RPG stands for Role-Playing Game. There is so much concern in this forum about which build is best - the ultimate Jedi build. I am afraid players who think like this missed the point. RPG is about enjoying the story. It is an opportunity to be taken to another world.

Unfortunately, many of the side quests can be avoided without missing the main plot. Persuade skill will make revealing some side quests less of a chore.. instead of having to roll the dice over and over again till you get the [SUCCESS] comment.

So, are skills useless? I don't think so. I think the skills are useful. But they are not necessary to advance the main plot.

The Treat Injury skill is a real help. That I agree. This is especially so for guardians. Those FP are better used for other powers than Cure and Heal.

The Persuade skill fetches you more cash. And often, prevents the dark side points from using Force Persuade if u r a Light-sider like me.

The Computer skill fetches more money. Those computer spikes are one of the most expensive commodities to be sold. Unless you want to milk T3M4 for hours. It also gives the weaker melee fighters opportunity to mass kill without having to face them. However, personally, i rarely used this skill.

Demolitions is more for ur party members. The mines sell for quite a bit too. How else could I afford those expensive items?

Security is useless. That I agree. In fact, Awareness is a joke.

Repair? Hahhaa.. only for the funnybot.

[vinmi pasu]

Howdy ho
I have to remark that 'computer use' is a little bit of a con.
I am on my 5th playthrough as a LS Scout/Consular, and my current comp skill is 9.
What I have found to be the case is that spikes are harder to come by. I will find maybe 1 or 2 in footlockers and such, whereas when I played DS sol/guar I was finding them in bunches of 5 or 6.
I was in daviks base on taris and being as I was only a L3 scout i decided I would gas the goons. Thinking my high comp would let me do all of them. I had 9 spikes, 1 went getting in, then each of the barracks cost 8 spikes, so I could only do 1, couldnt even get the area schematic!
I could be wrong but im sure when I played DS sol/guar and totally ignored comp, the cost in spikes was the same!
My opinion, persuade and treat injury are the only skils worth paying into for your PC.
And as such agree with this thread title, there are no point to skills.
As regards the setup of Kotor 2 I hope that it retains some of the more simplistic style of gameplay.
I was not a great fan of RPG's before and having read a lot about them now i see why.
Yes I freely admit the only reason I bought the game was due to it being a star wars title!
Yes I admit i dont own any other RPG's!
I suppose I have just made myself a pariah! but i really enjoyed the game and the turn based strategy and getting items to improve your saves and looking at each fight as a stategic battle.
What I dont want to be faced with is a mind boggling number crunching excericise.
So my hopes for kotor 2, more of the same, but maybe with a little tweak here and there!!
Ok now you can slag me off!!!

[UserUnfriendly]

i really like repair and computer skills..

i have a high skill set, and found blasting sith with overloading terminals fun and profitable, since i pick up points for computer use on top of xp for killing sith...but becareful, since gassing them sometimes will net you no points for killing enemies...

a fully repaired droid can get you around a thousand xp, very handy early in the game...

good demo skills will get you mines to sell...

i love persuade skill, but don't care for treat injury...

using improved energy resistance a lot means my characters get little damage, and i hoard energy shields and use them a lot, so i get by on heal for after battle...and using jolee and juhani mostly, they don't get hurt much...

[KrazyJedi]

Just in case: SPOILERS

First off, as pointed out elsewhere, the game allows you to choose your own style of play. Just because a player favors using Force powers doesn't mean skills are pointless.

To be specific:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth-Kibbles Security - Most doors or lockers either can't be opened or can be bashed open and there's no need for security. T3's high skill score can be used early in the game if there are any exceptional areas that need security.

They *CAN* be bashed open, but bashing is a combat action that voids stealth. It's possible to use Security on containers and not void stealth (though it doesn't work for unlocking doors, hmm....)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth-Kibbles Pursuade - Good for saving/making credits here and there but I find going as a dark jedi and using threats or buying force pursuade - are easy ways to avoid needing Pursuade as a skill.

This is a style issue. Having Persuade and Force Persuade gives more dialog options, which can affect whether or not you get Light Side or Dark Side points.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth-Kibbles Demolitions. - Valuable to acquire free mines but not very practical. There aren't many situations where laying down mines is a better solution to loading up on stims, shields and force augment powers and whacking at your enemies.

Agreed there aren't MANY situations where mines are useful, but they are VERY useful in those situations (the final battle with Malak and the Tarentateks in Naga Sadow's Tomb come to mind). Recovering mines also keeps your NPCs from charging through them in battle. With Stealth, you can make your way through large parts of levels and take out most if not all of the mines before moving your entire party.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth-Kibbles Treat Injury - Since you have easy access to healing either from yours or a partners' Force healing ability and the free healing when returning to the Ebon Hawk, treat injury only helps really early in the game. By late game it's nice to save on force points but you will have found dozens of medpacks by then.

Treat Injury adds to the points restored, thus improving the power of medpacs as you use them. There are a number of points in the game where the transit system is inoperative as well, typically the areas where healing is most critical.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth-Kibbles Computers - Skill with computers will allow you a discount on spkies, not a big deal. You just get a few "free kills", but none of the more difficult enemies or situations are affected. Repair - Similar to computers, a discount in repair parts but usually not much need for droid assisstance when this is allowed.

There are situations where a good computer skill can net additional experience points and even Light or Dark Side points. There are several droids with shields that become MUCH easier if you use Computer skill to turn off the shields.

There are two points in the game where the main character's Repair ability is critical: Getting HK's backstory and improving his abilities and rebooting the assassin droid in one of the tombs on Korriban. Both require the PC to have good repair skills. Also, reparing several droids gives you in effect a fourth party member. Repair them, follow them along their path, and most enemies concentrate so hard on the droid that your party can win almost undamaged.

Skills allow the player to use a style that suits him, and experiment as well. The first time through, I played a Scoundrel/Sentinel who spent most of the game sneaking past many enemies, opening footlackers, etc., picking up mines then setting ambushes. The second time, I used an Explorer/Guardian who Bashed his way through most obstacles. Both were enjoyable and both were valid ways to play. My first time through relied much more on skills (especially Stealth and Demolitions) while the second was more combat oriented. So it doesn't necessarily follow that skills are *useless* just because there are other options of play style.

[thomasv]

Just my opinions, and a couple of points I didn't notice on other posts:

Computers: Makes it much easier to kill enemies, particularly with power conduits or gas, and you still get XP for each enemy. Also nice to look at all the cams and expand your map without using more spikes. (spoiler)On the Leviathan, use the the computer to open the cell doors, which releases the crazed Rodains, which the Sith in the barracks will run out to attack, then you can gas them all! Beats taking on a big group with a half-naked Jolee

Demolitions: I never set or recover mines myself, but I like to disable them so that they don't kill me or party members. This happened one time, (spoiler) I had just beat the Sith master of Manaan, and hadn't bothered to heal, and lo and behold, I got blown up by the mine in front of the footlocker that holds his datapad. Also, there are mines protecting various containers that hold useful items, esp. in the Rakatan Temple, where nice lightsaber crystals are protected by 3 mines in a row. I would just as soon not walk through mines to get to things.

Stealth: Necessary for one LS quest that I know of on (spoiler)Korriban. It also adds a sense of security when getting the Rancor to swallow a grenade.. Other than that, just fun.

Awareness: See reasons for Demolitions above; other than that, (spoiler)the cloaked Elite Troopers on the Star Forge

Persuade: ESSENTIAL for LS players' mini-quests! Gotta have points in this one.

Repair: This one is pretty much useless in my opinion. You can use it for XP, but you shouldn't ever really need combat help from Droids (party members or otherwise). (spoiler)As far as repairing HK-47, everyone seems to have forgotten that his memory returns once your identity is revealed as Revan, and the repair option becomes moot. He won't even let you try after that.

Security: Quicker than Bash, and can be used in stealth mode. Plus, it's just cool.

Treat Injury: Very nice to have early in the game before gaining Force powers, and also during the solo sections of the game.

[Loki[D.d.G]]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomasv As far as repairing HK-47, everyone seems to have forgotten that his memory returns once your identity is revealed as Revan, and the repair option becomes moot. He won't even let you try after that.

But getting his stories on previous owners was half the fun! Just to see how many he killed, directly or otherwise, before he falls back into your possession.

And stealth has always been pretty useless for me imho. One stealth character in the party is usually more than enough.

[thomasv]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loki[D.d.G] But getting his stories on previous owners was half the fun! Just to see how many he killed, directly or otherwise, before he falls back into your possession.

Is that what happens?! I never got that! I guess I just never put enough points in my repair skill... I'll have to try that next go-around.

[Loki[D.d.G]]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomasv Is that what happens?! I never got that! I guess I just never put enough points in my repair skill... I'll have to try that next go-around.

The only thing you unlock when your identity gets revealed as Revan is the revelation that you are the creator of hk-47. But no matter how much you repair him initially, he wont be able to recall that final bit of info, naturally.

[Epithet]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomasv Is that what happens?! I never got that! I guess I just never put enough points in my repair skill... I'll have to try that next go-around.

Alternatively you can just watch them on YouTube.

Obviously that comes with a spoiler alert.

YouTube - HK-47's Former Master #1 Corporate Officer

[thomasv]

Thanks guys.