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04-11-2003, 10:17 AM
|  | Exalted Member | | Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Waiting on the six paths for someone with a soul to sell.
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I've just finished reading up on some reports (we're lucky enough to get most major newspapers worldwide on our faculty although we are struggling with budgetcuts, when will the politicians learn education is important) and I read that one of the major political opposition members has been stabbed to death and there were some reports of attemped assasinations on others.
So it looks like the war just got an other, cold-war like, dimension.
It will take years to get civilian Sadam symphatisers to accept an other government, maybe a generation.
People change, but very slowly.
@Gruntboy, if so, you should display you feces as art....
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04-11-2003, 10:45 AM
|  | Moderator | | Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: London, UK.
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I disagree entirely, no matter what size mob you are.
The notion that in this day and age, when reporters are flashing pictures of dead bodies instantaneously from the war zone all over the globe, the "big evil government" could get away with that is preposterous: no matter how much you want to believe.
Its offensive. Its childish, low-brow, "way out of line" and un-original. Yet someone still thought it was clever enough to bring up. If its so obvious, it'll be pointed out as fraudulent immediately.
Don't waste my time with that crap (hence the retort) and don't go all high horse on me either. Sarcasm is the tool of the anti-government and anti-war screamers - can't you take a little dissent, or does that destroy your foundations? I can't and wouldn't stop you exercising any powers you might have at your disposal but it will just greatly reinforce the belief I have that there is one set of "rules" for people who think one way here and one set for everyone else.
Its amusing to watch people go down the list:
"Oh, the war *is* going well, hmm, they won't free the Iraqis though"
"Oh, they liberated the Iraqis, hmmm, bet they don't find WMD though...."
I see a pattern. I stick to my guns and accept the consequences.
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04-11-2003, 02:33 PM
|  | Site Owner/Administrator | | Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Nine Hells
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Gruntboy,
I understand that you didn't like the comment that James Mason made, but that does not give you the right to hurl insults towards him. As a moderator, it is even more important for you to respect the forum rules and set a good example. You could have easily posted a reply in defense of the US without adding insults.
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04-11-2003, 02:34 PM
|  | Exalted Member | | Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the infinite abyss, between dreams and nightmares.
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Just curious, weren't there supposed to be huge huge stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, I mean thats whats been said for a long time now, why aren't they finding weapons of mass destruction out of the keyhole, why no smoking gun, hmmmm?, why only dual use weapons, if indeed they are that.
And as to the CIA planting things, it has done so before, so why shouldn't it be capable of doing so again, and with regard to the large amount of journalists there, the fact is they are not given free reign around Iraq, just where they are allowed to go, so whos to say what could be going on.
Would the Bushy and his cohorts plant weapons if they found little or none WMDs?, incidently one of the principal reasons for war, maybe they would, I mean it would be a rather political fiasco if shockingly they were wrong.
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04-11-2003, 02:35 PM
|  | Exalted Member | | Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: The Facility
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| |  Quote: Originally posted by C Elegans
...Regarding what happened to Saddam and the Republican Guard, there are already speculations around. The American analysis service company Stratfor claim that many sources of information converge at the hypothesis that Saddam fled to Russia. The CIA, Russia and Saddam is supposed to have made a deal with the content that Saddam fled to Russia and withdraw the military resistance. Sources in Jordan's goverment support this claim. Washinton post's presented CIA analysists claims that the order to cease all resistance in Bagdad came from Saddam himself.
Personally, I have no opionion at all regarding these speculations, since I cannot assess the validity of the sources and the claims... | So why did you post it? Are you sure you don't have an opinion?
Personally, I view the performance of the Republican Guard as exactly what you would expect of a third-world military against the US. It is not that it didn't fight - it was simply that it was outclassed beyond reckoning. Why roll out conspiracy theories when you have no proof? Why not wait for a bit and see what turns up? Remain skeptical, by all means, of what Fox News tells you - but don't rush off into the first crazy idea that makes the CIA look bad, either.
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04-11-2003, 02:38 PM
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Alright, I'm sorry if anyone took offence at what I posted.
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04-11-2003, 03:22 PM
|  | Moderator and Board Bimbo | | Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: The space within
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| | Quote: Originally posted by Lazarus
So why did you post it? Are you sure you don't have an opinion?
Personally, I view the performance of the Republican Guard as exactly what you would expect of a third-world military against the US. It is not that it didn't fight - it was simply that it was outclassed beyond reckoning. Why roll out conspiracy theories when you have no proof? Why not wait for a bit and see what turns up? Remain skeptical, by all means, of what Fox News tells you - but don't rush off into the first crazy idea that makes the CIA look bad, either. | Why did I post it? Because I wanted to hear if anyone else had an opinion about it. Of course I am sure I don't have an opinion, I have many strong opinions but it's not necessary for me to have an opinion about everyting I post here, sometimes I may just be interested in hearing others opinions. Why do you ask?
??? I am highly sceptical - firstly I am always sceptical of conspiracy theories and secondly don't know anything about this "analytical company" called Stratfor. They claim to have 500 companies and even US govermental departments as custumers...so I thought maybe some of you Americans could comment on them.
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04-12-2003, 01:38 AM
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| | Quote: Originally posted by InfiniteNature
Just curious, weren't there supposed to be huge huge stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, I mean thats whats been said for a long time now, why aren't they finding weapons of mass destruction out of the keyhole, why no smoking gun, hmmmm?, why only dual use weapons, if indeed they are that.
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Pick your answer:... 
A: Iraq don't have any WMD.
B: Iraq have done a good job in hiding them.
Of course these answers can be extended further.
As for the "dual use weapons". Is that really so different? I'm no weapons expert, but I'm sure if left alone it wouldn't take that long time to assemble these "dual weapons". Arm a SCUD or an Al-Samoud with something "lethal" and see what happens.
While no "smoking guns", the "disarmament of Iraq" was all about these "dual weapons"....or am I wrong?!? Comments...
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04-12-2003, 01:55 PM
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Are we realy so suprised by the fact that they haven't found anything even remotely dangerous.
The "proof" the States give during the UN adress was far from convincing.
Shouldn't we just be glad it's all over now, hope it didn't trigger something realy wrong in the Middle-East, and finaly restore our own economy.
It's all well and done the States wanted to remove a dictator but I'm sure we in the Europe can expect a bill pretty soon.
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04-12-2003, 02:41 PM
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| | | My opinion would follow closely with Nightmare and Fable. Saddam wouldn't limit his self by destroying something he could use to keep power. Don't under estimate Saddam, his one goal in life is Saddam.
Will they find a Nuke in the desert? No way.
Will they find chemical weapons? Most likely.
Will they find biological weapons? No idea. If I had to bet, I would call it a 50/50 chance.
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04-12-2003, 03:26 PM
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There is one thing I was wondering - if Iraq did have WMD's wouldn't they have already used them? It seems pointless to just leave the weapons lying around for the US to find.
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04-12-2003, 03:39 PM
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| | Quote: Originally posted by Vicsun
There is one thing I was wondering - if Iraq did have WMD's wouldn't they have already used them? It seems pointless to just leave the weapons lying around for the US to find. | I believe this would fall under, would Saddam order the use.
1. At the beginning of the war, Saddam most likely was still believing world opinion might halt the US. For him to have used it in the beginning would had (well I doubts) changed world opinion.
2. Once the US moved so far into Iraq and the chain of command was broken in Iraq, it would be up to the one's in command to choose to use it. Contray to some peoples belief, all Iraqis are not blood thristy tyrants. Given the chance between not using them, I would say most Iraqis wouldn't.
3. As for Bagdad, I will admit to a fear it was a trap to lure the US in and then for Saddam to unleash them (WMD) on the city of Bagdad. Hasn't happened.
4. Still have Saddams' hometown left......
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04-12-2003, 03:52 PM
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| | | 2. Once the US moved so far into Iraq and the chain of command was broken in Iraq, it would be up to the one's in command to choose to use it. Contray to some peoples belief, all Iraqis are not blood thristy tyrants. Given the chance between not using them, I would say most Iraqis wouldn't.
Why they are not blood-thirsty, I have little doubt they wouldn't try to protect their homeland from what they percieve as a foreign invader. Unless of course the one who has to choose if the weapons are used or not wants to see Saddam removed from power.
3. As for Bagdad, I will admit to a fear it was a trap to lure the US in and then for Saddam to unleash them (WMD) on the city of Bagdad. Hasn't happened.
I don't really think he would use WMD's on his own city, unless he is really desperate and crazy. He hopes after all to get control back and who would want to rule over ruins?
But then again if he really thinks he has no chance of getting the city back and completely lacks all humanity he might just unleash WMD's on Bagdad. You never know.
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04-12-2003, 03:56 PM
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| | Quote: Originally posted by Weasel
4. Still have Saddams' hometown left...... | And quite a lot of outlying territory where groups of people could hide. It is not a hospitable terrain, which makes hiding for those trained to exploit the environment all the easier. What I'm suggesting is that it's all too easy to take over the towns, as in Afghanistan, and declare victory against the Taliban; but the Taliban are still out there, in the massive underground caves and mountains, and apparently mounted a decent attack recently on mixed Afghani government/US troops. Iraq may prove more of the same, minus the warlords but with the added thread of the nation splintering three ways: Kurds in the north, and Irani-friendly Shi'ah in the South.
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04-12-2003, 10:52 PM
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Not to mention, if he does have chemical weapons, once used them the rest of the world would come down on him. And he'd likely lose his "status" as a martyr.
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