Whatever Happened to "No Glove No Love" (Spam Lite only)

[dragon wench]

OK, first off, despite the title, this is actually a fairly serious thread, so please keep any spam light and on topic


As I think a lot of people here already know, we moved in October. The area we moved to is very much in transition from a traditionally lower income district to a somewhat more affluent one. Thus, we see a real mix in terms of demographics..
The changes that have been occurring are, in many respects, still largely cosmetic. For example, one street will consist of new (and in some cases, positively "swanky") development... while just a block or two down the same road you can see still derelict houses and trailers.
So there's some background.

Quite often I will take the bus into town, and guaranteed, I will always see at least one girl no older than about 16 who is either pregnant or has a small child with her. Sometimes she will be even younger..sometimes she'll be both pregnant and have the small child.
My son confirms these observations by telling me how he has heard at school that teen pregnancy is a huge problem.

Now.. I don't have any issues with teens exploring their sexuality, in fact I anticipate it. That's not at all the issue.

What baffles me is why on earth these kids are not using contraception. I mean, it's not as though the stuff is difficult to obtain, teens in Canada do not require parental consent to get the birth control pill from their doctors. And, even if they aren't taking the pill, they should be using condoms for STI prevention anyway..

So, I ask why? Is it a lack of awareness and education? Is it cultural, perhaps many of these people have fairly conservative values and resist accepting their kids' sexuality?
Other reasons?
Thoughts?

[Claudius]

It only takes once ("forgetting" to use a condom). Some people feel sick or gain weight on the pill. And then there could be a barrier to actually being responsible. Its easy to give in to sexual urge but a different level of thought to plan out that thats going to happen and get the pill (or an IUD if you can't tolerate the physical changes of the pill). Its easy to run out of condoms and then throw caution to the wind; though I know not easy to deal with the consequences.

In summary: It only takes once is my answer.

[sparky_kat]

i myself wish that the phrase "no glove, no love" was more used. teenage pregnancy is on the rise, and with famous teens now getting pregnant.... its only going to get worse imo.

i feel you should use 2 types of contraception, with one of the options always being a condom. it makes the odds a little better as we all SHOULD know that contraceptives are not 100% effective, only 99% to 99.9%. i know this first hand as my son was conceived while i was on the pill, and a friend of mine had conceived twice while on the depo shot.

its up to us as parents to teach our kids about sexual HEALTH, not that sex is bad, but that you should be safe if you should decide to have sex. if we can teach them how to use proper contraceptives (both boys and girls) and let then know of consequences of what could happen without protection, then hopefully they can be more aware and decide to wait longer before they decide to do the deed.

some (not all) parents make the mistake of letting the school system teach their child about sex thinking that it will be enough. my mom never talked to me about sex, she let the schools do it. my sex ed experience was... dont have sex until your married, or, here is a condom... the male puts this on before sex. no real teaching on how to be safe. i have heard though, that sex education is getting better in schools. then we have the schools who teach abstinence only sex ed....now, im all for abstinence.... but lets face it, stuff can happen in the heat of the moment. and i would much rather my child know about how to have safe sex and have been talked to about using protection. the kids getting taught the abstinence only way are more at risk imho, especially if the parents haven't been talking to them about sex either. some say that sex education teaches our kids the wrong message. i dont think so, sex education should be their to inform our kids how to protect themselves if they decide to have sex...... and its up to us the parents, NOT the schools, to teach our children the benefits of waiting till one is older before they decide to have sex.

i know i lost my virginity relatively young..... would i have waited longer if i had better information and more knowledge about sex..... i probably would have waited longer

[Bloodstalker]

I don't think that a lot of teens think there is ever a chance of things happening to them. Not all of them mind you, but there seems to be something about being young that makes you think you're basically invincible (Or at least it did me and most of my friends growing up).

You also have to wonder how many of the guys in these cases are against wearing a condom because "It doesn't feel as good" or similar, as well as remember the intense pressure that is on some kids to be popular or well liked. I can easily see scenarios where two young people are together and things get heated and since it's spur of the moment the male, even if he would be willing, doesn't have a condom with him. In some of those cases, either the hormones take over and they really can't stand to wait, or perhaps one or the other pressures the other into it.

As far as getting birth control goes, you have to remember that just because a young girl doesn't have to let her parents know she's getting them doesn't mean that she isn't potentially too worried about her parents finding them in her possession later. If she fears getting in trouble at some point over it, she may decide it's a more acceptable risk to chance it without birth control.

There are a lot of factors I think, some you can adress and some you can't. Personally, I blame movies, gaming and music like all good citizens are supposed to do.

[Dottie]

Originally Posted by sparky_kat

the kids getting taught the abstinence only way are more at risk imho, especially if the parents haven't been talking to them about sex either.

Not only in your opinion. link

@Dragon Wench: In addition to concerns about contraceptive usage I also wonder about the views on abortion in your area, and in Canada in general. If abortions are generally disliked it might be an additional cause?

[VonDondu]

Originally Posted by dragon wench

Quite often I will take the bus into town, and guaranteed, I will always see at least one girl no older than about 16 who is either pregnant or has a small child with her. Sometimes she will be even younger..sometimes she'll be both pregnant and have the small child...

What baffles me is why on earth these kids are not using contraception...

Maybe some of them get pregnant deliberately. For over twenty years, I've been hearing that many teenage girls from low-income families WANT to have children of their own, especially if they grew up in a single-parent household and their own mother was a teenage mother. (Bill Moyers did a TV documentary that covered such topics back in the 1980s.) In that sort of social setting, a lot of young men in their twenties socialize with teenage girls, and conversely, a lot of teenage girls socialize with young men in their twenties, which results in lots of sexual activity and a relatively high rate of pregnancy compared to those who grow up in "traditional" families. Teenagers growing up in "traditional" families tend to be less sexually active and they don't intend to get pregnant, so it's only natural that they have a lower rate of teenage pregnancy, but you shouldn't think that is always the norm.

Here in the United States, the old welfare system gets a bad rap for encouraging such behavior, and you can't talk about the government's response to teenage pregnancy without getting into some very contentious arguments. Convervatives blame the "welfare state" for discouraging marriage while simultaneously encouraging procreation, and for a creating a situation in which young men didn't take precautions against impregnating young women because they didn't have to worry about any financial obligations to their children. I have no idea if anything like that applies in Canada.

[GawainBS]

Taking the social setting in to account that you described, I'm inclined to attribute it to that. Most poor people seem to lack any sense of responsability. They barely have money, yet they spend it on the newest cellphones or expensive clothes. They can hardly take care of themselves and yet they have kids in their late teens.
It just seems to be a culture of "no-responsability-makes-you-fit-in." This ties in with the fact mentioned earlier that a lot of those guys don't feel inclined to use condoms, because of all the hassle it brings with it, and probably also because it's un-male. A real, good, cool, man doesn't care about STD or pregnancies. He thinks he's immune to the first, or never heard of it, and pregnancies are the troubles of the women.
Apparently, a lot of those people simply have no idea about birth control. I saw a documentary where a 17 year old girl was convinced that you didn't get pregnant if you took a shower after the sex. Seriously, she hasn't given this any thought, has she?
This is all based on observation. (Some closer than I'd like.) I live in Belgium, so it certainly isn't a local problem, DW.

[Moonbiter]

Going a bit further on the question, this just in from CNN:

Study: 1 in 4 teen girls has an STD
Story Highlights
First study of its kind shows nearly 3 million teen girls have an STD

HPV, which can cause cervical cancer, is the most prevalent

Nearly half of all African American females tested had at least one STD

Doctors: Screening, vaccination, prevention among highest health priorities

CHICAGO, Illinois (AP) -- At least one in four teenage girls nationwide has a sexually transmitted disease, or more than 3 million teens, according to the first study of its kind in this age group.

A virus that causes cervical cancer is by far the most common sexually transmitted infection in teen girls aged 14 to 19, while the highest overall prevalence is among black girls -- nearly half the blacks studied had at least one STD. That rate compared with 20 percent among both whites and Mexican-American teens, the study from the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found.

About half of the girls acknowledged having sex; among them, the rate was 40 percent. While some teens define sex as only intercourse, other types of intimate behavior including oral sex can spread some infections.

For many, the numbers most likely seem "overwhelming because you're talking about nearly half of the sexually experienced teens at any one time having evidence of an STD," said Dr. Margaret Blythe, an adolescent medicine specialist at Indiana University School of Medicine and head of the American Academy of Pediatrics' committee on adolescence.

But the study highlights what many doctors who treat teens see every day, Blythe said.

Dr. John Douglas, director of the CDC's division of STD prevention, said the results are the first to examine the combined national prevalence of common sexually transmitted diseases among adolescent girls. He said the data, from 2003-04, probably reflect current rates of infection.

"High STD rates among young women, particularly African-American young women, are clear signs that we must continue developing ways to reach those most at risk," Douglas said.

The CDC's Dr. Kevin Fenton said given that STDs can cause infertility and cervical cancer in women, "screening, vaccination and other prevention strategies for sexually active women are among our highest public health priorities."

The study by CDC researcher Dr. Sara Forhan is an analysis of nationally representative data on 838 girls who participated in a 2003-04 government health survey. Teens were tested for four infections: human papillomavirus, or HPV, which can cause cervical cancer and affected 18 percent of girls studied; chlamydia, which affected 4 percent; trichomoniasis, 2.5 percent; and herpes simplex virus, 2 percent.

Blythe said the results are similar to previous studies examining rates of those diseases individually.

The results were prepared for release Tuesday at a CDC conference in Chicago on preventing sexually transmitted diseases.

HPV can cause genital warts but often has no symptoms. A vaccine targeting several HPV strains recently became available, but Douglas said it likely has not yet had much impact on HPV prevalence rates in teen girls.

Chlamydia and trichomoniasis can be treated with antibiotics. The CDC recommends annual chlamydia screening for all sexually active women under age 25. It also recommends the three-dose HPV vaccine for girls aged 11-12 years, and catch-up shots for females aged 13 to 26.

The American Academy of Pediatrics has similar recommendations.

Douglas said screening tests are underused in part because many teens don't think they're at risk, but also, some doctors mistakenly think, '"Sexually transmitted diseases don't happen to the kinds of patients I see."'

Blythe said some doctors also are reluctant to discuss STDs with teen patients or offer screening because of confidentiality concerns, knowing parents would have to be told of the results.

The American Academy of Pediatrics supports confidential teen screening, she said.

[Moonbiter]

Seeing the post above in the context of the thread title, I can only come with some personal observations: Living in Scandinavia I have grown up in a society where sex-ed and sexual freedom isn't an issue up for discussion, it's a fact of life. Our age of consent is 16, with sex-ed starting at the tender age of 12, but most European countries have recently lowered their AOC, with Spain leading with 13. An interesting observation is that many of the of the countries thought of as hardcore catholic are at the lower end of the age scale. This despite the fact that the Vatican has publicly banned the use of any kind of birth control. But I digress. In the USA, the AOC has been lowered drastically during the the last 15 years, but has created a legal and bureaucratic mess beyond words, changing wildly from state to state.

Teen pregnancy and STDs are a big problem everywhere in the western world, but it seems to be centered around nations where human sexuality has been, and still is, generally repressed by moral codes combined/based on religious dogma. As an example, the UK is currently the top nation in Europe when it comes to teen pregnancy. It is also at the bottom of the list when it comes to sex-ed, distribution of birth-control pills and public information about sexual issues. North America, including Canada, has more than 1.5 times as many teen pregnancies as the UK! Why?

The answer, according to the Biter, is information, education, and softened (and coherent) legislature regarding the distribution of birth control. The question of abortion also plays a part, but that's a completely different discussion, and would IMHO be a pretty moot point if the previously mentioned issues were addressed in a proper way. Which leads me to the problem of young mothers in Wenchies neighbourhood:

In Scandinavia, the few teenage moms we get are statistically from poor, dysfunctional and often rural families, where education has a low priority and the mother of the mother usually gave birth at an early age herself. Another interesting observation is that in Norway, a majority of the annual teen moms come from areas with a strong religious bias regarding birth control and sex in general. The north-western part of Norway is predominant. This is our "bible belt."

The whole thing is also a matter of social structure: In Scandinavia, and especially Norway, a teenage mom will be taken care of by the state. Despite that, most people know, from an early age, that you're gonna face hell if you get knocked up and decide to give birth before you've lived the best part of your life.

When I lived in New Orleans from 1991-95, I got a shock, because all the young, dumb, and revoltingly macho Latino guys refused to wear condoms, and forced their predominantly Caucasian (cornfed) and (at that time) underage girlfriends not to use any kind of birth control. These retards were pumping gas or flipping burgers, but they had NO idea of the consequences of a non-protected lay. Their tradition is completely beyond the pale, but their moms and their family enforce it. Speaking from experience, in the predominantly catholic countries of southern Europe, this is bollocks. Yes, every boy dislikes a frikkin condom, and if you get the girl knocked up you're gonna have a shotgun wedding, but PLEASE enjoy yourselves from the moment you feel like it! Here's the birth-control pills! Here's the condoms! Here's the information that you need to understand your own sexuality and how your dumbarse body/mind works! There's the haystack, now go go go!

This is my extremely tired, non-potent, 40 year old observations. I have one more thing to add:

If you suppress the sexuality of teenagers, you create psychotics! You can quote me on that.

BTW: This was the first post on SYM since 2004 where I didn't have a spelling issue. I'm getting there again!

[sinbad71]

am off the firm opinion that it is the responsibility of both the parents and the education system to educate on sex education.

Sex education in scottish schools,well at least in the ones i know about is mandatory.

Parents as i see it must broach the suject even if it is embarrassing or difficult to bring up. Those that don't aren't fulfilling their parental responsibilities.

A child should only be brought into the world if there is a financial ability to support that child until it is at an age where it can support its self. Also if it is going to be loved and cared for.

Protection is a must in this day and age where STD's and HIV, AIDS etc is prevalent.

[Fiberfar]

I've always had the impression that sex education in Norway is like "There's a risk of catching STDs, so take these 100 condoms to keep safe. Oh and don't go and have sex before you're 16. So you better take another 100 condoms just in case. kthnxbye."

At least that was what it was like the last year I went to middle school/junior high/whatever it's called.

[Moonbiter]

Originally Posted by Fiberfar

I've always had the impression that sex education in Norway is like "There's a risk of catching STDs, so take these 100 condoms to keep safe. Oh and don't go and have sex before you're 16. So you better take another 100 condoms just in case. kthnxbye."

At least that was what it was like the last year I went to middle school/junior high/whatever it's called.

Yeah! And you, as a hormonallly challenged knowitall, obviosly took that message seriously. Seriously Fib, how many pregnant teenage girls do you know? Wanna break the statistics?

[Fiberfar]

Originally Posted by Moonbiter

Yeah! And you, as a hormonallly challenged knowitall, obviosly took that message seriously. Seriously Fib, how many pregnant teenage girls do you know? Wanna break the statistics?

Who said I'm not the one making up the statistics?
Nah, seriously (if that's possible), I don't know any pregnant teenage girls, past or present.

But with education like that, they might as well ask the teenagers to find a bed and get going. I also remember reading in the national gossip paper, Dagbladet, that european teenagers should make babies to up the population.

[GawainBS]

Originally Posted by Fiberfar

But with education like that, they might as well ask the teenagers to find a bed and get going.

And what would be the problem wth that, as long as the teenagers are convinced to use a condom?

[Fiberfar]

Originally Posted by GawainBS

And what would be the problem wth that, as long as the teenagers are convinced to use a condom?

Ah... I meant the education is a joke, and that the teenagers might skip the condoms.