What do you think of Russia & France ?

[at99]

Now the war is coming to an end and information is now coming out of Iraq about France and Russia's (illegal) involvement with Iraq. eg Iraq had weapons from these countries, had help with their army, France and Russia could not care less about Sadam and tried to save their economic interests and provide a couter weight to US dominance,and many more (it is hard prove correct every story).

OR

These countries may be bad but if you look at theway the US conducts itself you could say they are all as bad as each other.

[HighLordDave]

Neither Russia nor France help install Saddam Hussein into power, nor did they give him access to the chemical and biological weapons the US can't find now.

Whatever the spin, there is enough finger-pointing and blame to go around, and no one is truly innocent in this whole mess.

[Weasel]

France and Russia (right along with the US and Britain) do what they think is best for their country. If they didn't, they wouldn't survive to be a country.

[Nightmare]

Quote:

Originally posted by at99 eg Iraq had weapons from these countries, had help with their army

And ignoring the fact that the US is the reason that Saddam was in power in the first place? Ignoring that he got all his chemical and biological weapons from the US, originally?

[Osiris]

I don't think any country involved has entirely clean hands in this matter. Even Australia did a good deal of trading with Saddam's Iraq (2 million tons of wheat a year for starters).

[at99]

I wonder if the world would be in a better state if the US wasnt a super power and France& Russia was the only super power.

[Tamerlane]

Quote:

Originally posted by Osiris I don't think any country involved has entirely clean hands in this matter. Even Australia did a good deal of trading with Saddam's Iraq (2 million tons of wheat a year for starters).

What words of wisdom, I'm actually under the impression that the only reason Australia joined the "Coalition of the willing" is so that we can send back the Iraqi refugees from our detention centres. Think about it, the Albanians came and went, we are in the process of shipping out the Afghani ones and considering Howards somewhat xenophobic policies towards illegal immigrants. We'll ship out the Iraqi ones and close the costly centres. Its a bit sad how our government can make these types of decisions and still sleep well at night.

As for Russian and France, they aren't so bad as the press (Fox News ) are making them out to be. Russian arms are predominant in almost every country as are American made ones and with a huge black arms market in the world. If you try hard enough, you can get almost anything that your heart desires.

[at99]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tamerlane As for Russian and France, they aren't so bad as the press (Fox News ) are making them out to be. Russian arms are predominant in almost every country as are American made ones and with a huge black arms market in the world. If you try hard enough, you can get almost anything that your heart desires.

There are many claims against the Russian and French( more so than just basic weapons which is still debateable). Could you clarify this point.
What about the spying on Blair, advice by russians to iraqis just before the war,missile sales, wmd claims that fr/Ru wanted them moved before the war, refuge for iraqis to france..

[Tamerlane]

Well I haven't heard much about the allegations so its not news to me, and secondly I visit a variety of selected news sites which I deem to be reputable and they don't publish rumours and such.

As for spying on Blair, you've got to be joking. Show me a decent link and I'll believe it. I could spin off about the spying incidents by US against the UN, here is just one example of it. But it doesn't relate to your original point about Russia and France exclusively selling arms to Iraq. Show me credible sources about the others and I'll reply to them in turn, I don't enjoy discussing speculation

[CM]

The French sold Iraq Mirage's back in the early 90s. Russia sold all their tanks. They got their avaition tech from China. Their military (infantry) training from the US and chemical weapons from all 4 nations. Mainly from the US.

Just like Iran's air force consists mainlz of Tomcats and other 70's US aircraft.

[Tamerlane]

Written in 1998, but this article details Iraq's weapons build up prior to the Gulf War.

[at99]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tamerlane As for spying on Blair, you've got to be joking. Show me a decent link and I'll believe it. I could spin off about the spying incidents

Here is 1 link but there many, it has been on most the major networks a;ready
here

[at99]

Quote:

Originally posted by CM The French sold Iraq Mirage's back in the early 90s. Russia sold all their tanks. They got their avaition tech from China. Their military (infantry) training from the US and chemical weapons from all 4 nations. Mainly from the US. Just like Iran's air force consists mainlz of Tomcats and other 70's US aircraft.

I was really getting at weapons sold to Iraq after 1st gulf war, but any information is still interesting.

[Tamerlane]

Well that article sure is making a hell of a lot of accusations.

Assassinations, tapped conversations, anonymous agents, people smuggling, shady Russian officials, media beating the troops to this source of information. Sounds a lot more like a Bond movie to be honest

If this is in fact real, which I frankly don't believe then how did the media pick it up or more importantly a British newspaper. The FSB may still have a tarnished reputation from its days as the then KGB but I doubt that its intentions are still the same. If all the other news agencies pick up on it then I'll believe it but until then it sounds just too Hollywoodish, if thats a word

Oh and the article was published five days ago, if it was in fact real, surely Blair would of made a public statement.

[at99]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tamerlane Well that article sure is making a hell of a lot of accusations. D Oh and the article was published five days ago, if it was in fact real, surely Blair would of made a public statement.

Well I cant prove it personally I can say it was on Fox,Sky and BBC networks. The BBC especially are very carefull about such matters. If this is any help.
I dont think Blair would (or did) make a public statement . There are a lot phone calls from US/UK to France/Russia of late. I think a lot of new facts are emerging and deals done (I suspect).

I think anything to do with spies smells of James Bond quite frankly.
Time will tell though about fallout from this conflict
(I imagine some countries are getting a little nervous to say the least).