Want a laptop - need advice

[CM]

Ok i need a laptop. I have no clue which brand or which model. I want the Laptop to be able to:

1. Play NWN and WOW and other heavy duty games. So basically need a 128 mb video card minimum.

2. Play dvds and movies.

3. The rest is standard, word and net and stuff.

I am guessing i need a minimum of a 1.6 Ghz. But what type? Centrino? Pentium or Celeron?

Secondly what companies provide cheap and good stuff.

Mind you i do not want to spend 2000 dollars on a new laptop.

Max i believe i want to go is 1500. The cheaper the better if the above two can be fitted in.

Any ideas on companies and what models will be good?

[blake]

I would say you will need at least a gig of ram for those games, and then more if you plan on running and p2p programs or a multitude of antivirus prgrams. Youy can get it cheap on ebay, just make sure you have a reputable dealer.

[Skuld]

Whatever you do, do NOT get a celeron. Especially for gaming. Go with an Athalon, p4, or Centrino. Each have their benefits, but if you're going for a space-saving/mobile desktop go for a p4 or an athalon. DVD burners are now pretty cheep and almost standard, so thay might be a thought. And 128 MB shouldn't be too hard to accomplish. The huge question is what size screen do you want. This determines the case type and base price. Also which OS you want can affect the price. My favorite build-your-own site has a no OS option which I love. So here's what I've found from http://www.Directpc.ca

AMD Athalon 64 3200+ 2.0 GHz
2 x 512 400MHz PC3200 RAM
40 GB 5400rpm HDD
ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 128 MB DDR Video RAM
8x DVD-ROM And 24x CD-RW COMBO w/ Software
Integrated LAN with 10/100 Fast Ethernet Controller
15.4" screen
No OS

Price $1570.38

And in response to Blake's comment, over 1GB of ram isn't too common among laptops.

[CM]

Thanks man. Thanks alot Skuld. Do they delivery? Have you used them yourself? What is the method of payment?

http://www.directpc.ca/controler.jsp...s&from=session

A bit expensive. Over my budget by 300 dollars. But solid right? What can i get rid of?

[HighLordDave]

Dell, Sony, Toshiba and Fujitsu all make good laptops both in terms of quality and bang for buck. The trick is to get the most computer for your budget.

You should always work backwards from what you can afford, especially with notebooks.

[fable]

When you speak to a sales representative, don't let them talk you up. Begin with prior knowledge of exactly what you need, and tell it to them. You'll hear the disappointment in their voices--I did. But then you can accurately compare similar computer configurations for different companies. Also check for specials. It may be possible to find even more than what you want periodically for the same price, or less.

[Magrus]

I don't know a whole lot about computers, but I bought my friends Compaq off of him for dirt cheap two years ago. Seemed wonderful until it broke, and the replacements parts were 2-3 times the price of standard parts. So, I'll go with a different avenue than everyone else, don't buy Compaq unless your looking for a disposable computer.

Oh, another thing. Try www.tigerdirect.com. If you know exactly what your looking for and can put it together I've been told thats the place to go for good deals. I think they have pre-built machines there too.

[Skuld]

I like to avoid big names because they use the same parts as other "no-name" brands, they rarely offer a no OS option, and they come preloaded with a lot of nonsense software I'll never use. And Yes I've ordered a laptop from them whe it came time for my sister to get her own computer, the thing runs fine as long as you keep it clean just like any other computer, and I'm pretty sure directpc has free shipping.

And that link is to a base system. Try to get a link that works with your custom setup. Or just cut and paste the breakdown of components.

[VonDondu]

I wouldn't buy a generic notebook computer unless 1) I could be certain that I could get good tech support, and 2) I wasn't worried about resale value. Namebrand computers are not necessarily any better in quality than no-name computers, but warranty fulfillment can be an issue, and you'd get more money for a namebrand computer if you ever tried to sell it.

I've heard bad things about Toshiba tech support, but the people I've heard making the complaints are hardheaded and pretty dumb about computers, so I take what they say with a grain of salt. (These are the kind of people who want as many programs running on their computer as possible, including spyware like Weathercast, and then complain when their computer bogs down. And they don't know how to deal with viruses themselves.) I've heard great things about Sony tech support from the same people. I think Dell computers have a three year warranty, and I think Sony offers an extended three-year warranty if you want to pay for it. I've heard mixed things about Dell tech support. Some people love it, and some people hate it. Sony and Dell computers seem to have the highest resale value, followed closely by Toshiba. I haven't heard much about IBM, HP, or other brands.

As a rule of thumb, notebook computers cost about twice as much as an equivalent desktop computer.

Celerons based on Pentium IV technology are crap, plain and simple. An Athlon or a Centrino (based on the good old Pentium III core) is a much better processor at the same processor speed. An Athlon 64 running at 2.0GHz is about as fast as a Pentium IV running at 3.4GHz for most applications. Pentium IV processors are a bit more expensive than Athlon 64 processors, but even if the Pentium IV offers great performance on paper, you have to keep in mind that a processor that runs at 3.4GHz gets very hot (you could suffer burns on your lap--I'm not kidding). In order to keep a Pentium IV from running so hot, it automatically throttles down to a much lower speed (like about 700MHz) when the heat goes up; so actually, your processor will rarely ever be running at full speed. Athlons are much cooler and use less power, and they won't be running at 700MHz most of the time instead of the speed you paid for. Centrinos (based on the old Pentium III core) are even better when it comes to low power consumption and less heat, but they're very expensive. Intel is trying to recover their development costs, and they haven't achieved an "economy of scale" when it comes to manufacturing Centrinos since they sell relatively few of them. How would you feel if you were Intel and your Pentium IV chip turned out to be worse than a Pentium III chip? They're still trying to sell more Pentium IV chips than Pentium III chips partly just to save face, but the buzz in the industry is that Pentium IV chips have reached the end of their life (they just can't go any faster without using too much power and getting too hot), so I'm looking forward to the day when the "next generation" of Intel desktop and mobile processors is based on the Centrino. In the meantime, you probably can't afford a Centrino notebook, so go with the Athlon XP (if you really want to save money) or the Athlon 64 (if you want even better performance).

5400rpm is pretty slow for a hard drive, but I don't know how many options you have when it comes to laptop hard drives. Whatever you get, make sure you make regular backups and figure the cost of your backup equipment into the cost of your sytem. For example, you might want to get an external USB hard drive or a memory card reader, or you might just want to burn CDs with the built-in CD burner. CD-RW speeds are very slow, and CDs tend to get scratched, so I don't bother with CD-RW discs; I just use CD-R discs (they cost about thirty cents each, so if you make one backup a week, just give up one Coke a week).

Video chipset names are very confusing, and I'm sure the manufacturers make them that way on purpose. So do some research before you decide that a video chip which has a great-sounding name will really serve your purpose.

Also consider what kind of memory the computer requires for optimal performance. For example, if the motherboard works best with dual-channel memory, that means you want to get two sticks of memory. But if you have only two slots for memory, you'll have to replace both sticks of memory if you ever want to add more memory. Personally, I think that 512MB of memory (two 256MB sticks of dual-channel memory) is adequate for a desktop computer, but I don't play "heavy duty" games as you call them, and a lot of people say that 1GB of memory (two 512MB sticks of dual-channel memory) really makes a difference in a "high performance" computer, so that should be your goal if the cost is not prohibitive. I don't know if the notebook computers you're looking at use the new DDR-II type of memory, but you might want to look at benchmarks to see if it offers enough improvement in performance to justify the extra cost.

Good luck!

[Magrus]

One other thing with Dell being mentioned. My landlord bought a laptop and desktop through them. Everytime something happens with his computer and he needs to reformat, I've seen him spend all day on the phone with customer service to do so. He can't just pop in a disc and go, he HAS to stay on the phone with them. I don't know if that is something he deals with on other issues with his computer. He's said great things about the computer, his sons that use, ruin and make him reformat the thing every few months are a different matter though.

He and I both ended up needing new hard drives after a storm fried ours, and I had mine done and was installing my software again as he was waiting on the phone discussing his key-code or something with Dell. That might be something to keep in mind.

[Skuld]

The entire time I've had my Dell laptop(going on 5 years now) I've had to call tech support once. It was only months after I got the thing, I haven't called them since, and come to think of it I do think I had to reformat. Anyway basic support for namebrand computers is usually only included for 1 year, and then they charge you an arm and a leg after that. All you need is the internet, and to be competant with google to solve just about any computer problem. If you can't find an answer on the web chances are the manufacturer wouldn't be able to help you anyway. Just my two sense on warranties.

And if you do go the big name route, don't get a Dell printer. First of all they're Lexmarks which are crap, and second of all you can't just go down to your local Staples or Office Max and get ink because of the special modofications that make them "Dell" printers.

BTW 5400RPM isn't slow at all for a laptop harddrive.

[VonDondu]

You're right when you say that 5400rpm isn't slow for a laptop hard drive (4200rpm used to be the norm). But my point is that a 5400rpm hard drive can be a bottleneck in a state-of-the-art Athlon 64 system, and a 7200rpm hard drive would perform a lot better.

Here's a link to a hard drive that I bought on sale at a local Fry's Electronics store a few months ago. It's an enormous improvement over the original 4200rpm 20GB drive that was in my laptop.

[Skuld]

Another thing you have to consider with high RPM hard drives is the heat they can generate at higher speeds. And this is especially true with a laptop which has very little circulation, and one measly fan.

[Ned Flanders]

CM,

I'm not certain you can put the processor Skuld mention's into a laptop. I don't believe it's made. Second, do not get a 5400 rpm HDD. 7200 RPM only! It will make a bigger difference than 512 MB or 1 GB of RAM.

I don't think you can get the laptop you want for the price you're asking.

Magrus is doing you right by suggesting tigerdirect.com.

While von Dondu says Toshiba tech support sux and Sony's is great, my experience has been the opposite. My best advice is go Dell (Inspiron XPS Gen2) and get a 3 year fender to fender warranty. Look for the Pentium M class processor for laptops. You'll find a processor at about 2 GHz with hyper threading, it's fantastic. Here at the workplace, we generating major software builds in about 27 minutes (takes over an hour on a regular P-IV desktop) so the efficiency speaks for itself.

You're not going to have a lot of options in choosing video chipsets for a laptop. It's all integrated so you'll get what you get. Personally, I think you could go middle of the road for options though. Don't spend the extra 150-200 dollars for the 256 MB video card, it doesn't make use of that memory anyway. The buffers are rarely full on a 128 MB memory card. I'll still stand by the fact you need no more than 64MB.

Last comment, get a 7200 RPM HDD. It makes a huge difference. Heat will not be an issue.

[VonDondu]

Originally Posted by Ned Flanders

Magrus is doing you right by suggesting tigerdirect.com.

I've heard mixed things about tigerdirect, but I haven't dealt with them personally. Some of the things I've heard people complain about happened years ago, so they might not be an issue anymore. I suggest that CM should do some research and see what people have to say about tigerdirect for himself and then decide whether he feels comfortable dealing with them.

Originally Posted by Ned Flanders

While VonDondu says Toshiba tech support sux and Sony's is great, my experience has been the opposite.

I tried to make it clear that I was reporting what other people said. I referred to them as "hardheaded and pretty dumb about computers" and said I take what they say with a grain of salt. CM might not have the same experience with Toshiba or Sony as they did. It probably depends on how hardheaded and dumb about computers he is.

Originally Posted by Ned Flanders

My best advice is go Dell (Inspiron XPS Gen2) and get a 3 year fender to fender warranty. Look for the Pentium M class processor for laptops. You'll find a processor at about 2 GHz with hyper threading, it's fantastic...

I assume you're telling CM to spend more than $1500 to get a Pentium M-based laptop. If he decides to spend more money, he can definitely get a better system than one that costs less than $1500. But there are always tradeoffs.

To clarify what I talked about earlier, "Centrino" is not a processor per se, but rather a "technology" that includes the Pentium M processor, a certain kind of chipset, and integrated WiFi. So when I was talking about "Centrino" processors, I was actually talking about the Pentium M processor. I apologize for any confusion I might have caused. If you buy a notebook computer with a Pentium M processor, you're probably going to get the "Centrino" package. As Ned and I have remarked, it's really the best MOBILE processor technology on the market. It isn't just a desktop processor that has been slowed down and put into "sleep" mode as much as possible; it was designed from the ground up (based on the Pentium III design) to be a mobile CPU. There isn't any available desktop equivalent yet (although I hope there will be soon). But as I said, it comes with tradeoffs.

The tradeoffs are that Pentium M processors are very expensive, and the only chipsets for them that I know about offer mediocre video performance at best. I don't know if there's an ATi Mobility chipset for the Pentium M. Most Intel chipsets use "shared memory architecture", which means the integrated video adapter makes use of system memory rather than separate memory chips. Their performance is not suitable for "heavy duty" games.

Originally Posted by Ned Flanders

You're not going to have a lot of options in choosing video chipsets for a laptop. It's all integrated so you'll get what you get... I'll still stand by the fact you need no more than 64MB...

To continue what I was saying, video options are limited in a Pentium M notebook computer. As nice as the processor is, a "Centrino" or Pentium M notebook might not meet CM's needs if he wants to play "heavy duty" games on it. So I think he should look at Athlon XP-M or Athlon 64 systems based on an NVidia or ATi chipset with good graphics capability, rather than a system based on an Intel chipset. Otherwise, it might not serve his needs.

EDIT: I just found a link to a laptop like the one you recommended, Ned. That looks like a really great machine. It has the best video adapter you can get in a laptop--a 256MB NVidia GeForce Go 6800 Ultra. My gosh! You learn something new every day. I hope CM can find a machine like that for a price that fits his budget.