Vancouver transit riders tasered for not paying fares (no spam)

[fable]

Check out this. And for a quote:

VANCOUVER — The country's only armed transit police have been tasering passengers who try to avoid paying fares. According to documents provided in response to a Freedom of Information request, police patrolling public transit in the Metro Vancouver area have used tasers 10 times in the past 18 months, including five occasions when victims had been accosted for riding free.

That's pretty damn amazing, at least, when you consider the reputation Canadian's have cultivated in recent years for being the most laid back and permissive folk on the North American continent. But they elected this government, and presumably they want to, um, taser people for don't ante up a few dollars for a ride.

I really like this quote, by the way: "Yesterday, the head of the RCMP admitted the police force did not do a good job making information public about taser use, and vowed that changes will be made." In other words, the problem isn't the tasering, at all! It's not letting people know that tasering was being used. As long as you let people know you've decided to employ a potentially life-threatening form of punishment that is in any case very painful, everything is fine. Including its use against people who are riding a train illegally.

[Tricky]

You have to assume those were some pretty violent incidents.

Well I don't know about Canada, but I think a lot of the transit personnel (bus/train/anything) in the Netherlands would appreciate something a bit more effective than a self-defence course. They've made the news repeatedly over the last few years, although I admit don't really know their current state of affairs. I've always wondered why the subways attract so many violent people.

Whether or not taser use is appropriate, police presence is a good thing. They should do that over here too. There's a lot of private railway security, but no police.

(no spam)

Meanie. Tasers jokes are fun.

[fable]

Originally Posted by Tricky

You have to assume those were some pretty violent incidents.

Look at the article:

In one incident, a non-paying passenger was tasered after he held onto a railing on the SkyTrain platform and refused to let go...On another occasion, a passenger was tasered when he fled from police who found him without a payment receipt during a "fare blitz."

If I read this correctly, and the information included is correct, as well, the only violence offered in at least a few situations was by the police. The fact that it was being used at all, instead of forcible restraint (if it came to that), says quite a bit about the government the Canadians elected for themselves. Don't you think restraint would have worked just fine, without the risk of, oh, I don't know, death?

[Moonbiter]

I find it strange that this is going on in Vancouver, one of the most laid-back cities I've ever visited. Then again I have to think along the same lines as Tricky here: Do we automatically assume that not paying the fare was the only thing these people were guilty of? The conditions on the t-train up here in tiny Oslo after 9pm, especially during the weekends, are so bad that we could definitely need some police to tazer half the of the rabid passengers.

[Tricky]

I just look at the numbers. Only 10 cases of violent incidents in one and a half years required taser usage. For a big city like Vancouver, that seems low and I certainly don't expect they simply shot the other 80 offenders. If these ten were the worst, there was probably more to them than meets the eye.

[fable]

Originally Posted by Tricky

I just look at the numbers. Only 10 cases of violent incidents in one and a half years required taser usage.

And before that, none did. Does that mean the people who are resisting arrest have changed, like the guy who violently, viciously kept hold of a rail? Not according to the article: the methods of dealing with resistance have changed. Why?

Tricky, still want want to know why you think simple restraint is a failure.

For a big city like Vancouver, that seems low and I certainly don't expect they simply shot the other 80 offenders.

Ten times in 18 months, where no times in dozens of years before, seems a low increase? Granted, it's not 1000 times, but how much of a change is it to go from "we don't use electronic weapons on people" to "we'll use electronic weapons as a first resort against resistance"?

[Nightmare]

Canadian police are taser-happy. A few months ago, a man died at a Canadian airport after he was tasered repeatedly by the police for, um, being very vocally rude and refusing to move. It sparked a controversy, but I don't think much, if anything, was done.

If anything though, I think public transit could only use more tasers...half public transit riders could probably use a good tasering now and then, myself included.

[dragon wench]

The Vancouver police are very close to being fascists in my view, so none of this is surprising..
This is the same police force that spends all kinds of time needlessly harassing street people in the Downtown Eastside (the Cdn equivalent of a ghetto), and as Nightmare mentioned.. a man was killed by a tasar at Vancouver Airport some time ago. I believe the "inquiry" is still underway. During that incident it was stated by somebody who had served in the police years ago that today's force is poorly trained in actually talking to people. Instead, they are all too ready to reach for their tasers...
All of that being said, some of the people I've encountered while riding Skytrain are a security risk. Somebody once threatened to mug me... though they were all fluff because when I told them to er... "jump of a pier" they backed off.
However, I don't think tasers should be used, they are far too dangerous.

Just out of curiosity Fable, have you lately been on a kick to show up Canada as a sort of poorer cousin to the US in terms of politics and such? (since you also made mention of Harper and his band of thugs in a thread I recently posted).
No worries, Harper, and the Vancouver police disgust me too, I just noticed is all

[Moonbiter]

I've checked it out some more, and it definetly doesn't look good. I can't for the life of me understand why the transit-cops suddenly should need .40 caliber pistols and tazers on top of night sticks and pepper spray, when the crime rate on the metro lines were not going up, and was low to begin with. Unless Vancouver had a major crime explosion during the last 5 years I can't really see a reason for it.

Then again the transit cops remove hundreds of non-paying passengers each week, so I'm guessing the 5 being tazered in connection with not paying the last 18 months must have been pretty non-compliant. I wonder if they should have used the baton or the pepper-spray instead?

"Excuse me, mister rabid-crackhead-sir. Would you rather I bashed your skull in, burned your eyes out or electrocuted you?"

Oh, and what a piece of turgid scandal journalism that Globe and Mail article is.

[dragon wench]

Here is some more information from the CBC, as well as some related stories:

No change to TransLink taser use: police
RCMP accused of misusing Taser on Victoria teen
Commons committee meetings on Taser use closed to public
Dziekanski's mother weeps before committee studying Taser use

[fable]

Originally Posted by dragon wench

...and as Nightmare mentioned.. a man was killed by a tasar at Vancouver Airport some time ago. I believe the "inquiry" is still underway. During that incident it was stated by somebody who had served in the police years ago that today's force is poorly trained in actually talking to people. Instead, they are all too ready to reach for their tasers...

I provided a link to that above under the word death, in my second post. Tried to be subtle about it.

Just out of curiosity Fable, have you lately been on a kick to show up Canada as a sort of poorer cousin to the US in terms of politics and such? (since you also made mention of Harper and his band of thugs in a thread I recently posted).
No worries, Harper, and the Vancouver police disgust me too, I just noticed is all

I've just mentioned Canada twice, now. That's hardly being on a kick. It's just a matter of being surprised, is all. Whenever Canada is mentioned here by the kind of blogs and news I read, it's always in reference to your government's sterling pacifism, welfare system, treatment of the disadvantaged, etc. Yet then something like this happens, far worse than anything yet committed by any of the US municipal police forces associated nationally with heavy-handed behavior (LA, Houston, Chicago). What am I supposed to think when this shows up, or Canadians elect for themselves a fresh new northern Bush, after seeing what our Yale-educated oil brat achieved?

[Nightmare]

Originally Posted by fable

I provided a link to that above under the word death, in my second post. Tried to be subtle about it.

Ah, right. Missed that, my bad.

I've just mentioned Canada twice, now. That's hardly being on a kick. It's just a matter of being surprised, is all. Whenever Canada is mentioned here by the kind of blogs and news I read, it's always in reference to your government's sterling pacifism, welfare system, treatment of the disadvantaged, etc. Yet then something like this happens, far worse than anything yet committed by any of the US municipal police forces associated nationally with heavy-handed behavior (LA, Houston, Chicago). What am I supposed to think when this shows up, or Canadians elect for themselves a fresh new northern Bush, after seeing what our Yale-educated oil brat achieved?

Well, I guess Canada is good at using our welfare system to exploit the disadvantaged in somewhat of a nonconfrontational manner...or something. Seriously though, Canada's policies have always made just as little sense as the rest of the world, especially in the last couple years. I don't actually blame it all on Harper (though I'm definitely no fan), but rather the entire federal government and all its elected members. I personally think they're all a bunch of juvenile dolts, which is why nothing gets done in our parliament. Its all the same party posturing over and over again, with little results. The only thing that I find gets people fired up, as a university student, is opposition to several pieces of legislation that slip through the cracks, like instituting a more American position on downloading music and the removal of funding from Canadian films that the government finds "offensive", which is really just censorship. Other than that, the vast majority of people I talk to (all 20-somethings like me) are extremely apathetic these days about Canadian politics and where our country is going, even more so than usual. Yay Canada...