They did it again...

[CM]

Whoa the bodies were mutilated are you sure about that?
And there is a possibilty of sexual abuse.
That is one sick group of people.
Those two need to be locked away for life.
Actually in this case kill them.

[Kameleon]

Originally posted by HighLordDave
Not being sure how police across the pond handle things, could it be that they are waiting to notify the girls's families before making a general release to the public? That's a common practise over here, but our news of this event is sketchy at best.

Hmm, notify of what? Usually, the families are brought in straightaway to identify the bodies, in this case it's been 24 hours without any identification. @Fas, no I'm not sure about mutilation, it's about the only explanation I can come up with, unless the families have refused to look at the bodies

[Nippy]

We don't know if it's them, but it might well be. I'm not sure what to do in this case to be honest. I'm damn sure if they were executed people would stop this sort of thing right away.

@ HLD I think it had more to do with the fact that the bodies were that bad.

@ CE, I agree, see my above post...

[Xandax]

Originally posted by Nippy
<snip>
I'm not sure what to do in this case to be honest. I'm damn sure if they were executed people would stop this sort of thing right away.
<snip>

Maybe not - but at least there would be less scum on the planet.
It might not be "reforming" or "humanistic" or "detering" with the death penalty, but at least the people executed wouldn't do it again.
(yeah - I know, what if they were innocent and yada yada yada, but what if they weren't and they did it again? )

[Nippy]

Agree completely Xan, but the way I look at it also is that people die in wars, but do they talk about innocents then? It's just a number. I am reminded of a quote of Stalin:

One death is a tragedy, a million is just a statistic

[HighLordDave]

Originally posted by Kameleon
Hmm, notify of what? Usually, the families are brought in straightaway to identify the bodies, in this case it's been 24 hours without any identification.

As I said, coverage of this in our general news is spotty, so the details of this are few and far between.

The standard procedure over here is that when a body is found, their identity is withheld from the media and all other public sources until it is 1) identified and 2) the family of the victim is notified. Identification of the body doesn't always mean that a family member identifies the body, it can also come from ID cards (driver's license, etc.), dental records or DNA testing. My question was just wondering if the delay for making a formal announcement about the identity of the bodies was due to the family's request or if they were waiting because the police had to resort to other forensic means to make a positive ID.

[Kameleon]

Originally posted by HighLordDave
My question was just wondering if the delay for making a formal announcement about the identity of the bodies was due to the family's request or if they were waiting because the police had to resort to other forensic means to make a positive ID.

I'm not afraid to admit that I have no clue - although the news about this tragedy is everywhere and abundant, it's not particularly new or informative...we know practically nothing

[C Elegans]

Now I have more time...

@Nippy: I am afraid you and I are just being realistic here.

Regarding identification procedures and the likehood that the bodies of the two girls were mutilated, I can only say that many people who murder others for sexual and/or sadistic pleasure, also mutilate the bodies before or after the victim has been killed. Let us hope this did not happen to the two girls, there are other explanations as well.

Regarding death penalty, we must realise that regardless of whether we are against or for death penalty, it will not solve the problem of sexual abuse of children anyway. Many countries have death penatly for a number of violent crimes, and the occurence of these crimes has not been lowered because of this. Many people believe death penalty would reduce crimes becaue the criminals might fear the penalty. This may be how a more healthy person reasons, but the mind of a sadistic pedophil is not the same as your own. Many suffer from narcissistic or megalomanic thoughts, and truly believe they are far to smart to ever be caught. Others have severe cognitive and social malfunctions and don't even reflect over the possibility that the may be caught. yet others are in a psychotic state when they commit the act, and have no sense or ability of judgement whatsoever. It is true that a dead or life imprisoned sadstic pedophile cannot commit any more crimes, but you must also realise new ones are born all the time. The estimated incidence of pedophilia is about 4% of the population. Studies of victims show that about 1 in 30 children have been sexually molested. (Some of these molestations are from other children or teenagers though, and you have to be adult yourself to fulfil the criteria of a pedophilia diagnosis. )

The problem with child abuse is much deeper than how we should penalise the perpertraitors. And the really tragic thing is that at present, we have almost not a clue what can be done to stop these people, other than increasing the control mechanisms in society and learn to listen to our children and be aware of signs of abuse.

[Yshania]

Just to try and bring things into perspective a little. There is only speculation right now, we do not know if these girls have been molested, never mind mutilated, not that it would be any less of a crime if they haven't IMO.

It is also possible that the delay in identification could be due to the fact that they may have well been dead for the whole two weeks they have been missing - it has been hot here in that time, this would accelerate decay

The latest news is that the post mortems have been inconclusive. This is all we know. We have had no insight into the minds or motives of the people in detention...

[C Elegans]

Ysh is absolutely right, at this stage everything it is mere speculation. I hope my post didn't fule the idea that it is certain the girls actually were molested, I just wanted to present the statistical facts as to make people understand that pedophilia and child abuse will not go away with death penalty.

In all fairness, we should also note that most pedophiles do not molest children. These "child lovers" are simply unhappy people who fall in love with children just as I fall in love with men, but they are aware of the fact that they cannot have romantic and sexual relationships with children, since that hurts the child. These people often try to stay close to children in a friendly manner, as a kind relative or neighbour or what have you. It is a disorders. yes, but I mention this because it is unfair to portray all pedophiles as monsters.

[Yshania]

@CE - I didn't post that in relation to what you had said - thank you for sharing your knowledge, since the question had been asked . It was more to stop the speculation getting out of control whilst we still do not know what has happened. The likelihood is that this case could be yet another such statistic, but I am a little leary about assuming so, it is such an emotive subject...taking a child's life is bad enough. The fact that both of the couple have been publically named tells me that the police have a lot of evidence against them. The man has been charged with kidnapping and murder, and his girlfriend with murder (though it might be being an accessory to the murder - I don't know for sure).

@HLD, the families were told last night that the girls had been found - they released a statement this morning asking for privacy to grieve. I am thinking that because of this there was a positive ID yesterday, but what has not been determined is how the girls died.

[C Elegans]

@Ysh: Yes, it's better not to speculate when so little is known...at the same time, I understand that people can't refrain from speculating since we all feel with these poor girls and their families, and want to know what happened to them. Child murder, child abuse, sexual abuse of children - it is so unfathomable for most healthy people.

I was surprised the accused couple was publically named, but I am not familiar with the British praxis here. In Sweden, names of people suspected for crimes are published until the offender is judged guilty in court.

[RandomThug]

I personally believe that in the time and day we are faced with decisions that we as a people should come to the same knowledge that the price of a bullet is a lot less than you'd think. some people are not people, rather they are beasts that have deformed back into the cave like animals we once were. And the solution for such beasts, the same fate many beasts have in the animal kingdom, death.

Sell the cloths on the ****ers back and buy a bullet with it, blow his brains out and let the other prisoners clean up the damn mess.

thug

[Yshania]

@CE - I agree.

To be honest I am not sure whether the police condoned them being publically named, but it is a small village, they had spoken openly with the press a couple of times - it could have been that they were sighted being taken to the police station and two and two were put together. Sadly, it has happened in the past that a suspect has been named, only to be proven innocent. The public have condemned this person by then. The usual practise is not to reveal the identity of the suspects since it can also jeopardise the hearing, even if the evidence is stacked against them...

[Mr Sleep]

If anyone wants to discuss the Death Penalty they can start a new topic or bump one of the old ones, it isn't really relevant to this thread.

I think the press have been running too much with this story, the hysteria they have created can not help the polices cause, report the story yes but dissecting the poor girls lives on TV over and over again is just a little bit much if you ask me, not helpful or healthy.