The deepest game you ever played (spam on subject)

[fable]

Yeah, that's right: it's another stupid "the #(!?*&!! game" thread. Only in this the #(!?*&!! thread, I'd appreciate knowing the deepest game you ever played. Not the one that was the most fun, or the one that had the coolest voiceovers. I want to know which game you played had the greatest depth, and what made you think so.

I'm fast coming to the opinion that King of Dragon Pass holds that for me. It's a weird RPG/strategy hybrid that I've mentioned before, sort of like the KOEI games, but with far more focus. There's just so much to running a clan; not to mention the 400+ plots (often with far-reaching consequences) that are for the most part randomly chosen from and administered during any given gaming year in any given game. I've played it through four times, and only seen about half of the plots; and I've deliberately tried to make choices that were different, each time.

(You're usually offered five options as clan leader when one of these plots wings your way. Unlike so many other RPG games, these aren't fake choices, and there are no bad ones. It's all a matter of what you and your clan put first, and how you want to be regarded by others.)

Your choice for depth?

[dragon wench]

PlaneScape Torment

I went for high wisdom and intelligence so I was able to engage in all the really deep conversations... philosophy in a rpg..

[Sojourner]

Planescape: Torment - It was like playing a novel.

[fable]

No arguments with the opinions already expressed, but maybe I should have specified "depth of gameplay." I was more concerned about that, here.

[Robnark]

gameplay depth you say? um, final fantasy tactics then. in some ways. it's just that the battle system has so much variety and flexibility, combined with the different classes and skills of each character, unique characters, and so on. the gane was pretty flawed in many ways, and there are a few problems with the combat, but nothing grabbed me like that game's combat system.

when you can spend up to 30 minutes on a random encounter without getting horribly, horribly annoyed, you can tell it's a good game. there are games I've played more, and games I've liked more, but FF:T has the most fascinating combat I've ever played - Like chess in 3d with customised pieces and far too many special rules and skills. lovely.

[Chanak]

I suppose I should break mine down into categories, then, so I won't confuse the "deepest game" with the game I feel featured the greatest depth.

The Deepest Game I have played thus far is unquestionably Planescape: Torment. I have to admit, you have intrigued me concerning "King of Dragon Pass." I haven't heard of that one before, and I like the sound of it. Morrowind features very open-ended play that will send you running around Vardenfell for hours upon hours. I'm not sure what the actual quest count is in that game, but it has to be high up there in terms of sheer volume. I played through Tribunal leaving quite a few quests unfinished, and already I am eyeballing Bloodmoon. Thus far, I would say that Morrowind has to be the Game With the Most Depth I have played.

[Kayless]

Depth of game play eh? For me that would be the Sims with all it's expansions installed. You start off by designing your own little people. Then you've got make sure your little dudes eat, sleep, get entertained, go to the bathroom, and talk to each other. You also have to train them in a variety of skills if you want them to progress in their jobs so you can buy better stuff for their house (which you can design yourself). Add in convoluted romance options, pets and their training, celebrity ranks, having children, going on vacation, throwing parties, pests that hang around your house (skunks, obsessed fans, etc.), unusual items you purchase, not to mention all the customized crap you can download online to make things even more involved. The Sims goes as deep as you want it.

Of course Fallout 2, with its non-linear "do whatever the hell you want" style of game play was cool as well. Its one of the few games that actually lets you play an honestly evil character. Become a slaver (and sell your NPCs into slavery), a child killer, a grave robber, a made man, a porn star, or just some freak that likes to butcher entire towns. Of course you can just as easily play a traditional good guy (or something in between). Fallout 2 also actually paid attention to your stats for more than just combat purposes. Want a fun challenge? Play as a character with an INT of 2 or 3. The dialogue options are hysterical (especially when you talk to Tor the village idiot of Klamath).

For depth of plot I'm going to concur with my esteemed colleague and go with Planescape: Torment.

[Sojourner]

Originally posted by fable
No arguments with the opinions already expressed, but maybe I should have specified "depth of gameplay." I was more concerned about that, here.

In that case, Morrowind. I've never seen such freedom in a game before. In my more recent games, I spend a lot of time exploring while questing just to see what's there.

[fable]

Originally posted by Chanak
I have to admit, you have intrigued me concerning "King of Dragon Pass." I haven't heard of that one before, and I like the sound of it.

It's a very unusual gmae in many respects. You really do feel as though you're in charge of your tribe, handling such diverse matters as learning new religious mysteries, learning and selecting new blessings, dividing up land between hunters, crops and pasture, building fortifications, sending explorers to study both your lands and the vast countryside you've wandered into, doing raids and cattle raids, feuding, forging alliances, building trade routes, etc. Two activities are permitted every season, for five seasons. Of course, there's never enough time or goods to do all you want.

I also like the idea of a seven person council whom you choose out of perhaps fifteen-to-twenty elders in your tribe. They represent ten or so gods in their loyalties, so filling the council meets some gods lack representation, and some potential benefits to your tribe will have to be made up in some other way. Each elder is also rated for seven qualities (bargaining, custom, magic, combat, animals, etc), and you especially want to have the highest possible values on your council to assist in decisions affecting these items. The council members frequently voice their opinions about many issues, sometimes passionately holding opposite viewpoints. There are several plots that involve various council members, too.

It all combines with the enormous number of plots to make for a fascinating game. There are a few screens available here.

[Galuf the Dwarf]

Me, I'd have to say either of these three console games were the had the deepest story:

- Final Fantasy (loved this one since I was a little kid, though I'm surprised by some changes made for the Sony Playstation version)
- Final Fantasy IV (titled as #2 in the Nintendo series)
- Final Fantasy VII

The plots fold out into something different, even grander in scale than what they originally were, especially #4.

I honestly can't say I know of one PC game I've played that's had a lot of plot/story depth. About the closest is Baldur's Gate. I started actually playing BG2, then got into BG1, so the plot was somewhat spoiled.

PS:T is one I've kind-of been looking at, though I believe at this point that I'd have to special-order it through the developer's website.

[The Z]

Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time....don't look at me like I'm some alien lifeform....

[fable]

Originally posted by Galuf the Dwarf
Me, I'd have to say either of these three console games were the had the deepest story:

Not plot--gameplay. I didn't make that clear in my initial post. As Julius Caesar said to Brutus, "My bad."

[Galuf the Dwarf]

Originally posted by fable
Not plot--gameplay. I didn't make that clear in my initial post. As Julius Caesar said to Brutus, "My bad."

Oh, in that case, I'd say the one's that were the deepest gameplay were...

PC:
- Stronghold. You both built an economy AND a military force to defend and/or invade at various times. Too bad my version of the game has a crashing bug in a big military campaign mission.

- The Oregon Trail 3rd Edition. Never before did you really have to handle A LOT of different aspects of travel life that happened to alot of people in those times. Amazing.

PSX:
- Final Fantasy Tactics
- Final Fantasy VII. Still seemed like quite a bit to do in necessity, and for fun.

N64:
- either LoZ: Ocarina of Time or Super Mario 64 (got to make Mario do SO much more in that than in any other Mario game)

SNES (Super Nintendo Entertainment System):
- Super Mario RPG
- The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
- Final Fantasy III. Great game, and quite a bit of gameplay.

That's about all I can think of. Hope I didn't make another error myself.