| | The American Civil War (no spam)
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10-20-2002, 08:30 PM
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Kind of broad topic, innit? But I really don't know if anybody in the US is going to be interested in discussing the thing, much less any SYMers outside. Suffice to say that I find the whole mess, political, military, social and economic ACW, a fascinating area of study. It changed a major power irrevocably in more ways than one, and we're still living the results today (even if you get beyond the obvious slavery and secession issues).
So if you're interested in discussing, here's your chance.
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10-20-2002, 08:44 PM
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Sorry, but i fail to see what you are getting at. What is it exactly that you wish to discuss??? The aftermath of the civil war, or the effect it has had on the history of america??? I'm a little confused.
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10-20-2002, 09:46 PM
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| |  Quote: Originally posted by Lintelyg
Sorry, but i fail to see what you are getting at. What is it exactly that you wish to discuss??? The aftermath of the civil war, or the effect it has had on the history of america??? I'm a little confused. | I'm leaving the floor open to any issues involving the ACW--whether during, or following the war; political, social, etc. I have no idea whether anybody really wants to discuss any aspect of it, so narrowing it down at this point would seem to be counter-productive.
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10-20-2002, 10:00 PM
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The first thing that comes to my mind is that the ACW wasn't fought over slavery. From what I've read, this war was started over a tariff tax. With this tariff the north was attempting to force the southern states, who had economic ties with Europe, to trade almost exclusively with the industrialized north.
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10-20-2002, 10:43 PM
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Well, the American Civil War was one of the leading factors in Canada becoming what it was. It forced the British and French North Americans in Canada to finally sit down, and write up the BNA (British North America Act) which defined Canada as a country, and no longer as a colony of Britain. It was mostly due to the fear that the Confederate's would win, and push the Northern armies into Canada, and then eventually coming up to invade Canada.
|  I'm very much interested about the ACW...
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10-21-2002, 12:23 AM
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| | ...as a child though back in the early 80's I got to read this Newberry-medalled book called Rifles for Watie.
Of course there is also The Red Badge of Courage.
However, as an Asian, my knowledge of the topic would relatively be superficial compared to most Americans.
I'll be watching this thread with keen interest. 
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10-21-2002, 12:58 AM
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| | Quote: Originally posted by Aegis
It was mostly due to the fear that the Confederate's would win, and push the Northern armies into Canada, and then eventually coming up to invade Canada. | Even if the Confederates had won, how would that have pushed the US armies up into Canada? The Confederacy wasn't looking to take over the US--their stated goal throughout was to achieve legitimacy. If they'd won, it would have been through gaining recognition of the Confederacy as a separate nation.
Mind, I'm not saying *you* believe the argument you posted, but I'm trying to understand the POV of whomever came up with that.
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To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe. |  If the Confederacy won...
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10-21-2002, 01:07 AM
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| | ...and that the Virginians won the battle at Gettysburg, do you think that they would have "extended" the Mason-Dixon line further north?  | Re: I'm very much interested about the ACW...
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10-21-2002, 02:04 AM
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| | Quote: Originally posted by Maharlika
...as a child though back in the early 80's I got to read this Newberry-medalled book called Rifles for Watie.
| I've read that one too. If you're interested in the Civil War you should read The Killer Angels by Michael Shaara. I quite enjoyed it. Ken Burns' PBS miniseries on the Civil War is very informative as well.
I’m originally from Pennsylvania myself and many of my uncles are real Civil War buffs (Some of them have even been involved in Gettysburg reenactments). Fascinating stuff really, though unfortunately I’ve no insightful observations to contribute.
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10-21-2002, 02:56 AM
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| | Quote: Originally posted by fable
Even if the Confederates had won, how would that have pushed the US armies up into Canada? The Confederacy wasn't looking to take over the US--their stated goal throughout was to achieve legitimacy. If they'd won, it would have been through gaining recognition of the Confederacy as a separate nation.
| I will have to agree with Fable here...most of the war from the southern side was fought as a defensive action. Lee's march north was mainly to try and gain support from Europe.
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10-21-2002, 03:01 AM
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| | Quote: Originally posted by Weasel
I will have to agree with Fable here...most of the war from the southern side was fought as a defensive action. Lee's march north was mainly to try and gain support from Europe. | ...had Lee won?
Am I correct to assume that the battle at Gettysburg was a deciding one?
Edit--- @Kayless: Thanks for the FYI. I'll try to get a copy myself. As for Rifles... I read that one when I was Grade 3. Quite a thick book actually and the librarian kept on asking me why I kept on borrowing it... 
Last edited by Maharlika; 10-21-2002 at 03:04 AM.
| Re: Then what would have happened...
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10-21-2002, 08:48 AM
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| | Quote: Originally posted by Maharlika
...had Lee won?
Am I correct to assume that the battle at Gettysburg was a deciding one? | I'm under the impression (please correct me if I'm wrong) that Gettysburg showed that the South couldn't sustain a Northern campaign, pretty much as Weasel pointed out. The South was back on the defensive after it, with generals like Joe Johnston and Robert E Lee who were easily equal to the task.
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To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe. |  I had the impression...
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10-21-2002, 09:18 AM
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| | Quote: Originally posted by fable
I'm under the impression (please correct me if I'm wrong) that Gettysburg showed that the South couldn't sustain a Northern campaign, pretty much as Weasel pointed out. The South was back on the defensive after it, with generals like Joe Johnston and Robert E Lee who were easily equal to the task. | ...that had Lee won, the capital of the Union is within reach and relatively "undefended" at that time?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the two capitals of both sides "near" each other? Thus, if the Confederacy got their opponent's capital, the Union would be easy prey for the Europeans?
| Re: I had the impression...
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10-21-2002, 09:28 AM
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| | Quote: Originally posted by Maharlika
...that had Lee won, the capital of the Union is within reach and relatively "undefended" at that time? | My understanding is that both armies lost so many men and were so exhausted that neither was in much shape for battle after Gettysburg. Washington was also guarded by a large number of men, both from the likelihood of an invasion and to put down any insurrection that might occur. Maryland was not in general friendly territory for the North. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the two capitals of both sides "near" each other? Thus, if the Confederacy got their opponent's capital, the Union would be easy prey for the Europeans? [/QUOTE]
How do you mean, "easy prey for the Europeans?"
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10-21-2002, 09:54 AM
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| | Quote: Originally posted by BaronTx
The first thing that comes to my mind is that the ACW wasn't fought over slavery. | This is a common misconception spread by southern revisionists.
The issue at the heart of the Civil War was slavery. There is no other reason why the Confederacy seceeded from the Union. The term "states rights" is a euphamism for slavery; there are no other rights the southern states wanted other than to keep other human beings in institutional bondage. All of the other reasons which people cite as the reason for the war all boil down to slavery.
For people wanting to learn more about the Civil War, I recommend Don't Know Much About the Civil War by Kenneth Davis and anything by James McPherson, especially Battle Cry of Freedom.
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