Standards of Male Beauty and what if there were bonafide Male Beauty Pageants?

[dragon wench]

Craig's thread, "Perceptions of Beauty," reminded me of this, but I didn't really want to take off on too much of a tangent there, since it's a somewhat separate topic.

There has long been much focus on how female beauty is judged, both by those who indulge in it and by feminist academics.

But, what about male beauty? How do we define an attractive man? My feeling is that men are indeed subject to similar scrutiny as women when it comes to appearance. However, it is more subtle, and ostensibly ends up being not so much about obvious appearance but about how much they can bench press, or how well they can pass a ball on the football field/basketball court etc. In other words, while appearance comes into play, it is, at least on the surface, focused on a particular skill or level of physical strength.
Certainly, women can go to the gym, wear cosmetics etc. to "improve" their attractiveness, but at the end, it's not how much they can lift that is of importance, but rather, how flat their abdominal muscles are.

I'm not suggesting men are never victims of superficial judgment, they are, and sometimes the results are similar to those that occur with women. The increasing prevalence of anorexia among men is testament to this reality. What I am saying, however, is that there is often more subtlety at work, the layers are a bit more complex.

This brings me to the second part of my thread, if we had true male beauty pageants, what kind of criteria do you think would be used to judge the attractiveness of the contestants?
Note, Obsidian pointed out that Mr.Universe is the male equivalent of a beauty contest, and I concur, but I'm talking here about something that exactly mirrors the contests held for women -- no displays of strength, no demonstration that involves skill in a particular sport-- just appearance, community involvement, and the hope for "world peace."

Notes:
*To SYM mods, if you think this is still within the realm of Craig's thread, than please merge
*To everyone else, I did not include a "no spam" heading in my title. However, I'd appreciate it if spam is kept to a minimum and does not venture off topic.

[Craig]

I'm not really sure what the standards are. Neat, and stylish I suppose be the theme? Whilst women 'look good by taking things off' men who aren't showing off muscle would gain more by dressing right. I guess a competition would be called something like "Modern gentleman" Or "Mr Metrosexual" Ok, maybe not that last one

[Magrus]

It varies I believe. Just as you have people that focus on specifics with women. Some guys focus on the really skinny girl. Some on the blondes, some on their breasts, and some on their butt. With men, I have noticed it all depends on the crowd you run into on how I am judged. I have had the "If you lost weight, you would look so handsome!" line tossed my way before. Generally followed by a "you really should work out". Which I roll my eyes at, given I get more exercise in any given day that I work than a number of those folks get in a week.

I get the "long haired hippy freak" comment tossed my way by a lot of people. However, a number of women have gone out of their way to comment on how much they loved my long hair. I could care less what the uptight men think of my long hair. The 50 men and women who think I look like a freak or a hippy every day are outweighed by the one random girl that runs up to touch my hair, then blushes and blurts out "Sorry, I just had to touch it". Yet, it is the "norm" still to have a clean cut, military style hair cut. It inspires the thoughts of the person having the qualities brought out in military training. The determination, professionalism and personal strengths, and most importantly, the willingness to conform. My hair, points out my unwillingness to conform to typical male standards, my individualism and so on, which puts off most conservative and older folk.

I have noticed also that a lot of women do not like muscular men. It is either a physical turn off, or intimidating to them. Not to say they don't therefore like men who are in good shape, being toned and slim. They just don't want to be looking at the men with tree-trunk sized legs and arms bigger than the girls torso. Yet, a large amount of the population of women still like that look.

Also, I have noticed that there is a pattern with the appearance of men and the women they couple with. Those with the short hair, well groomed and very "neat" appearances tend to end up with women that are submissive in a relationship or like being told what to do. The men with the crazy/ non-conformist appearances tend to have women of the opposite nature. Not always, but just my personal observations from my own life.

With all of this though if you want to make it in business as a man, you need the short hair cut, clean shaven face, well toned body and preppy type clothing.

[dragon wench]

Originally Posted by Magrus

I have noticed also that a lot of women do not like muscular men. It is either a physical turn off, or intimidating to them. Not to say they don't therefore like men who are in good shape, being toned and slim. They just don't want to be looking at the men with tree-trunk sized legs and arms bigger than the girls torso. Yet, a large amount of the population of women still like that look.

Indeed! I am actually one of those women. I am turned off by large men, it doesn't matter if they are bulky through body weight, or whether they have huge, bulging muscles, neither appeal to me. If I met a guy who was really muscled or heavier but he was a wonderful person, that would supercede any of my initial reluctance, but large men are definitely not my preference.
I'm really not sure why. Maybe it is, in fact, just personal aesthetics, or perhaps I feel vaguely threatened. A number of women I know, family members or friends, have been sexually assaulted, and one account of somebody's experience was related to me in detail when I was about 12 years old... Not the best time to hear about rape, considering that I had only recently started to come to terms with the changes in my own body; it probably had a psychological impact on me.


Regarding the whole idea of male beauty pageants, I've had some interesting reactions from men when I've proposed the concept. Many have outright laughed, seeing it as something highly amusing. Others have suggested that the majority of contestants and viewers would be gay. I find these reactions really quite interesting...

[QuenGalad]

Well, I'm always attracted to long-haired men... My partner has grown a magnificent mane to get me and boy, isn't he beautiful...

The thing is, altough I may get stereotypical here, that women present a somewhat larger variety of tastes. While not all men like Angelina Jolie, they always have some favorite top star beauty. Which can't be said about most women. Men consider women from sexual point of wiew, mostly before any other point. Women don't, or don't always. That's why it is almost impossible to make some kind of standard on male beauty - too much arguing.

I say a definite "no" to short hair (of course) and won't sign up for shaven, either... (hmm... athawism? ) I like well-developped abdominal muscles, but get disgusted on seeing overmuscled guys... and so on. I don't think there's much consensus we can reach on that one

[BlueSky]

I too used to get the " hippie remarks " thrown my way, for 20 years I had long hair, although in the past 10 it started turning grey. I usually kept in back in a ponytail because of work.

This past year I finally had it cut real short, my daughter could not believe it.

Since then, I've noticed the remarks have changed to, "Oh my, you look so much younger" or "welcome back from the seventies"

My current girlfriend likes it better short than when it was longer.

I really think that like men judge women, and women judge men.
That it is all subjective..as the old saying goes

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"

Remember that the heart sees what the eyes cannot.

[Magrus]

Originally Posted by QuenGalad

The thing is, altough I may get stereotypical here, that women present a somewhat larger variety of tastes. While not all men like Angelina Jolie, they always have some favorite top star beauty. Which can't be said about most women. Men consider women from sexual point of wiew, mostly before any other point. Women don't, or don't always. That's why it is almost impossible to make some kind of standard on male beauty - too much arguing.

Most definately stereotypical. It is highly rare for me to find myself attracted to models/stars. Granted, there are situations where I find myself thinking "oh, she's hot" when I walk past a poster or movie cover or something with a famous person on it. However, it is no different from my walking through a grocery store and seeing a cashier or customer. I cannot say how many women have the groupy mentality of throwing themselves at a musician or actor (Justin Timberlake or Brad Pitt anyone?).

Both sexes when single and of child bearing age have a tendency to view new people in a light of whether they would be a good mate. It is instinct. However, how people deal with it is different. Also, women have a different goal when selecting mates than men. They are now trained from a young age to find men with particular assets and personality traits in order to be a good partner and mate. Financial well being, stability and responsibility are among the top three traits that are set down as most important when women are finding a mate. Mothers and fathers both tend to stress these things to their daughters.

On the alternative, men are often taught when younger by their fathers in the moments when, in general, the father is drunk and speaking in a whistful or frustrated manner what their son should find in a women. Often, men do not bother discussing sex or relationships in a serious manner to their sons. They tend to play through their sons in an amusement factor type manner, or some secret desire to see their son grab a woman who fits what they want or can't have, or couldn't when they were younger. Not that women don't do it as well, but women tend to talk about it to their children without being intoxicated first. Which, most definately skews the ratio of well educated young men in the dating aspect of their lives. I wasn't given a talk on girls until I had graduated from high school, when he was so drunk my brother and I had to carry him into the house on the 4th of July. I learned on my own, and perhaps that is why I react differently towards relationships than nearly everyone else.

I can't say how often I have been discussing this with people my age, or older and heard similar responses. The mothers tell the daughters straight out far more often than fathers discuss with their sons. Even including the chances of fathers being drunk or upset about their own relationships when discussing such things with their sons. It's not an "always" type thing, but very common from what I have been able to gather. Which leads to the father imparting the advice that a young boy should fine a gorgeous woman who doesn't nag and is fun in bed more often than some sound relationship advice. Like the mothers advising daughters to get a responsible man who listens and is supportive instead.

[Craig]

I've been attracted to people on TV and posters (i.e celebs) but no more often than people in real life.

[Obsidian]

Sometimes the army image is a problem, particularly if it is actually accurate.

It's not an act, it is the way I am. It's what I do.
Problem is people copy us, so women don't always believe that I actually AM a soldier.
Also, the women I go after are not the I love the army crowd. They are left leaning humanists, powerful, independent women.
They help me repress what I consider the worst of my military traits. At least the worst ones for living in society.

I admit I probably wouldn't watch a "modern man" competition, at least not by myself. Guys don't like being belittled, watching men who are stronger faster and smarter then them.

"So your an ex navy seal who now practices child oncology? And you are ruggedly goodlooking with women fawning all over you?"

I'd love that show...
Ratings aren't there. Women are pretty to watch for both genders. I would not be interested in a bathing suit contest.

A ring match however...

Is a man's ability to fight related to his hotness?

[Craig]

Its the otherway. If he can fend* for himself then it can make him hot.

*Not just in a fist fight, but in earning money, social status etc.

[dragon wench]

Originally Posted by Obsidian

Sometimes the army image is a problem, particularly if it is actually accurate.

It's not an act, it is the way I am. It's what I do.
Problem is people copy us, so women don't always believe that I actually AM a soldier.
Also, the women I go after are not the I love the army crowd. They are left leaning humanists, powerful, independent women.
They help me repress what I consider the worst of my military traits. At least the worst ones for living in society.

I can definitely see how the army image might be a problem for you given your attractions. Sadly, a lot of left-leaning women are just as prone to stereotyping as their right-wing counterparts. Sometimes they are really hard-line in their politics, other times they simply do not know. I admit, at one time I belonged to the latter category, I really had no idea of the wide diversity of people who enter military life. But, a number of years ago I met some really great guys who had been in the army, and they shifted my perceptions considerably. Now I figure that the military is like any other human institution, you have good people and there are those you'd happily toss into a pit full of hungry crocodiles.

I admit I probably wouldn't watch a "modern man" competition, at least not by myself. Guys don't like being belittled, watching men who are stronger faster and smarter then them.

"So your an ex navy seal who now practices child oncology? And you are ruggedly goodlooking with women fawning all over you?"

I'd love that show...
Ratings aren't there. Women are pretty to watch for both genders. I would not be interested in a bathing suit contest.

A ring match however...

Is a man's ability to fight related to his hotness?

lol! This is what I mean though, when we apply the same standards to men in things like this it takes on a ridiculous aspect. The question is, why?
Why should we not judge men by how they look in a speedo while taking a walk on stage, why shouldn't we form opinions on their worth based on their contributions to a community?

Perhaps our rating men for their ability to fight is that old alpha male horn bashing thing combined with women checking for healthy mates???

[Lady Dragonfly]

I never watch any beauty contests so I've had no clue that there is a "community service" criterium in place... I thought these girls are judged by their long legs and white teeth, something akin a horse fair.

However, clicking the TV remote control some time ago, I remember coming across a show titled something like The Sexiest Male celebrities or whatever; I cannot vouch for the name but I have to confess, I watched for a few minutes.
There was nothing about muscles or, needless to say, community involvement. Pure looks and sex appeal. It was... educational.
I agree that a male beauty pageant would attract mostly gays.

I personally prefer intelligent, honest men with good manners. Looks are something secondary. But if I have to define 'my' type of male beauty, I would say tall, short hair, clean-shaven, moderately athletic, a bit rugged, and absolutely non-sweet. The package must include brain (size of it matters) or I want my money back.

[Gwalchmai]

Back in my college days, a friend of mine related a conversation she had had with a bunch of her girl friends over a bottle of Amaretto Schnapps. They were discussing the qualities they most desired in men, ranging all the way from height, to strength, to dress, to hair length. They eventually decided that a good sense of humor was essential. One said, “Even if the best looking guy doesn’t have a sense of humor……”

My friend finished the sentence, “Then screw him if he can’t take a joke!”

[Sean The Owner]

id say good hygiene is a MUST, i live with someone with a really bad case of body odor, and it makes me want to puke, im sure girls feel the same when they are with someone who smells bad

[dragon wench]

Originally Posted by Gwalchmai

My friend finished the sentence, “Then screw him if he can’t take a joke!”

ROFL!
Problem is.. I could see far too many guys deciding that a sense of humour is somehow not important after all...

I guess I should state my personal view of what is attractive in a guy. As I've said often enough, I value intelligence and fundamental decency beyond pretty much anything else. Oh, and the ability to cook and willingness to equally share domestics gets *lots* of points from me too.
As far as the exterior stuff goes, I find it is secondary, if even that, but my preferences are toward smaller men (as stated above I'm not wild about huge muscles and such), I like dark hair, and I find an angular facial structure attractive.