So. Cleveland. (No spam)

[fable]

Yes, that's where the Fables will be moving: Cleveland, Ohio. We've contracted on purchasing a head just southwest of there, in Medina. Believe it or not, the original settlers had tried to name it Mecca. When they were told they couldn't because some other village had been created with that name in the state, they chose Medina. And none of them are Islamic.

The Cleveland area's weird like that. It's part of the Midwest, meaning a horde of churches of one sort or another, and people always going around reforming everybody. But there are also more adult stores and adult bookstores than I've ever seen anywhere, and that includes in Amsterdam and New York City. There are even areas where there are adult book stores within a block of a church. Instant temptation and redemption, without much travel. Not good for exercise, but you can't have everything.

We even passed a former dinner with drive-in service named Fun for the Family. A closer look at the advertisements in the windows showed that the family they had in mind was one that watched XXX movies together. I've often speculated that there is something unhealthy about refusing to accept responsibility for your issues and externalizing them on a greater power. I think this overabundance of adult erotica in plain site may be the human personality's natural defense system kicking in. Or something. I left my medical license back in Delphi, before the so-called Christian Era, so please excuse my extreme ignorance.

Cleveland: they have a very nice, elaborate, and large park system. They puts them one up on New Jersey. They have more interest in the arts, including one early music program series at a local music college that brings in some stellar international groups. Lake Erie is to the north, meaning that there's an escape from the USA when we're finally invaded by a thoroughly fed up world.

More later. For now, I'm curious if anybody else here is familiar with the area. We won't discuss politics or religion with this lot, but otherwise, it seems a definite step up from the land of the bestial and the cynical.

[dragon wench]

Congratulations Fable, no doubt you'll be delighted to have been paroled from your present place of residence.

As to experience with Cleveland, I recall driving through it once and stopping for a meal before continuing westward. I did notice the large number of churches, but at the time this didn't strike me as extremely different from the other US cities and towns we've seen.
Are there in fact a greater number of such institutions in Cleveland?

[fable]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragon wench Congratulations Fable, no doubt you'll be delighted to have been paroled from your present place of residence. As to experience with Cleveland, I recall driving through it once and stopping for a meal before continuing westward. I did notice the large number of churches, but at the time this didn't strike me as extremely different from the other US cities and towns we've seen. Are there in fact a greater number of such institutions in Cleveland?

It's the Midwest: heavily agricultural at one time, still has a lot of it. Very traditional USian values: patriotism, religion, etc. Just like the Netherlands, or rural France, or rural Sweden, or rural just-about-anything. At least a few of the churches were extraordinarily attractive, especially a Serbian Orthodox(!) one in tri-tone brick. We were also going through a fairly ordinary residential neighborhood by car and came across a sign for the Islamic Center of Cleveland. At the end of a long highway, stood 3-story alabaster building with a huge golden dome and a pair of narrow minarets in gold, too. Remarkable.

The Eastern seaboard is generally much more liberal than the rest of the US, in part because they have little to do with the traditionally conservative base of agriculture which was always pushed westward. The Western seaboard is liberal, too, but that's because it functions as one large seaport to Asia. The influx of ideas and the higher population density augur against developing the kind of culturally orthodox mindset common to cattle growers, farmers, etc.

I should also exempt the northern edge of the nation, such states as Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan. They're heavily Scandanavian with a tradition of pacifism and religious tolerance.

Interestingly enough, Ohio just voted its first state legislature, governor, and both federal senators as Democratic since the late 19th century. Cleveland itself is seen as traditionally Democratic.

[Galuf the Dwarf]

Well, hope you enjoy Cleveland, fable. I've seen people come and go, so I don't know what to say otherwise.

We will be seeing you on here when the move is done, correct?

[fable]

Certainly. I'll be around until a few days before the move. Then the only evidence of our departure will be hailstorms, clouds of locusts, and tales of two-headed calfs and double-yoked eggs as we head west. I expect to be back online within a day or two at the most after our arrival.

[Siberys]

Awesome, Cleveland isn't that bad of a place to live really.

Plus, I can now torment you over there

(You'll only live a 3 or 4 hour drive from me in cleveland, muhuahahahahahaha!!)

[fable]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siberys Awesome, Cleveland isn't that bad of a place to live really. Plus, I can now torment you over there (You'll only live a 3 or 4 hour drive from me in cleveland, muhuahahahahahaha!!)

Perhaps we should consider Tierra del Fuego.

[Tricky]

So uhm.. Cleveland. I hear it gets pretty steamy up there?

Ai.. no spam. Too late, ok, re-edit. You know what, I'm starting to feel really sorry now. I can't find a thing about it that I'd like to learn more about..

So why are you moving anyway?

[fable]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tricky So uhm.. Cleveland. I hear it gets pretty steamy up there? Ai.. no spam. Too late, ok, re-edit. You know what, I'm starting to feel really sorry now. I can't find a thing about it that I'd like to learn more about..

And to think, I turned down the job of World Dictator for this.

Quote:

So why are you moving anyway?

Much more green in the Cleveland area: plenty of large parks for walking, hiking, bicycling. Nicer house, with more of what we want from one. Better access to activities than where we are, to Philadelphia. Better culture, more conservative but less cynical and violent than in New Jersey.

I've railed before about New Jersey culture, a descendant of lower class Southern Italians who moved here both directly from Italy and out of New York's Italian "ghetto" post-WWII. It's a free-wheeling, thug culture in the worst sense, vicious, fast with fists, intensely interested in two things: sports, and lawn care. I've even mentioned this observation to a few New Jerseyite academics and artists, and they've laughed and agreed.

I suspect if the presence of so many churches in Cleveland doesn't burn me to a cinder, we'll manage quite well.

[Tricky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fable And to think, I turned down the job of World Dictator for this.

Hey, don't worry about it. You have your moments.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fable It's a free-wheeling, thug culture in the worst sense, vicious, fast with fists, intensely interested in two things: sports, and lawn care.

That was very graphical. More so than you might think. Well they're around here too all right. I sort of 'lift' myself above that because I live fairly high up in my apartment. I can watch the sun set over the skyline and be completely in love with this city, and I can curse it when I get nearly overrun by a bottle of steroids driving a SUV.

I don't think I'll ever want to leave this place though. Maybe I'm too young to know for sure, but I never felt more at home anywhere. Not the place I grew up in, not Amsterdam, not Almere.

Have you ever seen Utrecht, Fable?

[Cuchulain82]

Wow! Cleveland, huh Fable? Was second-prize Buffalo?

Seriously, good luck. Moving is never easy, but hopefully you will enjoy your new home town. And the Indians are the favorite dark horse to win it all this year, so that's good.

(Have you ever heard the Randy Newman song "Burn On"? It's about Cleveland- you should check it out)

[fable]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuchulain82 Wow! Cleveland, huh Fable? Was second-prize Buffalo?

As I say (frequently) to my wife, "All the world loves a smartass." We looked at a list of metro areas that were priced as realty markets. Our favorites were extremely overpriced: Boston, New York City, Seattle. On the other end of the scale were places like Lubbock, Texas, known as the Dust Capital of the US. Cleveland came out pretty much at parity, thanks to a few industrial plant closings that have drastically affected the housing market without affecting the lifestyle.

I suspect living in Buffalo would be living in a prefab in an eternal winter. This may not be 100% accurate, however.

Quote:

Seriously, good luck. Moving is never easy, but hopefully you will enjoy your new home town. And the Indians are the favorite dark horse to win it all this year, so that's good. (Have you ever heard the Randy Newmand song "Burn On"? It's about Cleveland- you should check it out)

No, can't say I have. I'll try to find it. But we're not typical cultural types, and the things we go for aren't necessarily the things everybody would when looking for a place to live. For example, there are numerous thriving mini-international cultures in the Cleveland area, and we immediately searched for an Indian grocery to support our cooking habits.

[dragon wench]

So, when do you plan on loading up the covered wagon, hitching up the horses and moving West?

[fable]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragon wench So, when do you plan on loading up the covered wagon, hitching up the horses and moving West?

Not for another month, at least.

[Cuchulain82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fable As I say (frequently) to my wife, "All the world loves a smartass."

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Originally Posted by fable I suspect living in Buffalo would be living in a prefab in an eternal winter. This may not be 100% accurate, however.

It's accurate as far as I'm concerned. Cleveland is my second-favorite city to make fun of, but Buffalo (and Western NY by extension) is the absolute #1. It is, imho, an absolute dump- all the snow, no sunny days, funny accent... it's just not where I want to be. But, everyone I've ever met from Buffalo is a diehard supporter of the city. It's pretty amazing.

You know why the birds fly upside down over Buffalo, right?

Because it's not worth deficating on!

Okay, okay... this thread is about Cleveland, so I'll stop now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fable No, can't say I have. I'll try to find it. But we're not typical cultural types.

The song isn't terribly cultural- it is actually about the Cuyahoga River catching fire because it was so polluted. I like the song though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fable For example, there are numerous thriving mini-international cultures in the Cleveland area, and we immediately searched for an Indian grocery to support our cooking habits.

I think Cleveland is actually pretty diverse- my guess is that every metropolis must reflect some diversity in the modern globalized world- even Cleveland! (zing!)

But seriously folks... here's my question- what about the Bronx? You've said before that you have roots in the old Jewish sections of Harlem and the Concourse in the Bronx, right? Well, the concourse is coming back and real estate is still reasonable there (even though some neighborhoods may not be). Did you seriously consider moving back in to the city?