Showdown for the European Union

[fable]

The European Union is on a collision course with its own president, Jose Manuel Barroso, who narrated a slate of candidates that included Rocco Buttiglione for Justice Minister. Quoting from Catholic World News:

Buttiglione had enraged gay-rights activists during a nomination hearing, when he said plainly that he believed homosexual acts were sinful. A devout Catholic who is a personal friend of Pope John Paul II (bio - news), Buttiglione became a lightning-rod for opposition by leftists in the European parliament.

Actually, it's not just "gay-rights activists" who are up in arms, nor does that term truly define the broad-spectrumed coalition that has formed against Buttiglione, regarded as someone that cannot keep his religion separated from his political activities. But to continue:

The future of Buttiglione's nomination is now in question. The parliamentary civil-rights committee, which voted narrowly (27-26) against him, does not have the final say. The president of the European Commission, Jose Manuel Durao Barroso, could still choose to give Buttiglione the justice ministry, or some other spot on the European Commission, and Barroso told reporters that he still has confidence in Buttiglione. However, the vote prompted several influential European leaders to recommend that Buttiglione's nomination should be dropped entirely.

Italian President Silvio Berlusconi, who had put forward Buttiglione's name, said that the parliamentary vote "reeked of fundamentalism." And a prominent Vatican prelate said that the rejection of an active Catholic was a "discriminatory act."

I suspect Berlusconi, as usual shooting from the hip, meant Protestant fundamentalism, as opposed to the Catholic Pope's own brand of 7th century Roman Catholic fundamentalism, which he has liberally dispersed throughout his tenure. How it constitutes a discriminatory act to refuse to accept as Justice Minister a person who himself is a bigot must remain one of those wonders of politics that are never explained.

Your opinions?

[C Elegans]

Buttiglione and Berlosconi are both bigot clowns who nobody takes serious. Buttiglione was forced to make an official statement that he "regret the difficulties" his statement have caused.

I doubt Buttiglione and his catholic friends will have much influence in the EU parliament. The catholic church is more of a relic than a political power even in Italy, it has far more influence in Africa and the US than is the secularised Europe. More and more European countries are introducing gay marriage and gay adoption. It is just sad that Italy has choosen to put forward Buttiglione as their candidate for Commissioner.

[dragon wench]

Sounds a lot like the opposition to gay marriage here in Canada in the sense that Christian (mostly) fundamentalists are arguing their rights are being trampled upon...
Nice to know they are all singing from the same songsheet anyway.. Talk about 'doublespeak' !

[fable]

I neglected to mention that Buttiglione went on record stating that the purpose of marriage was "to allow women to have children and to have the protection of a male." He has also publically blamed the low birth rate in Europe on women with careers.

[C Elegans]

I know, he is a total moron. He has also claimed that children brought up by single parents fare ill, etc, etc all the christian rhethorics including all the erranous arguments, that you usually hear from christian fundamentalists.

Barraso's argument for stating he "still have confidence" in this idiot is that Barroso and others claim they believe Buttiglione's private opinions will affect his work as a Commissoner. Seeing Buttiglione is supposed to have justice, freedom and security as his field, I certainly doubt Barraso is right.

A problem is that the MEP:s must vote for the entire corpse of 25 Commissioners as a package, they cannot vote for or against a particular individual. Thus, tomorrows vote will not concern Buttiglione only, but the 25-man team of Commissioners.

Of course I hope not to see Buttiglione in the EU Commission, but even if we do, it's important to point out that he will have no actual power over the regulations in the EU countries. It is depressing to see there is no limit for how low the quality of politicians can sink, but if the religious fanatics must have a place in politics, it is at least better that they have no real power like Buttiglione, rather than having an immense lot of power like Dubbayah.

I think you North American would be amazed if you realised how extremly little EU is actually doing

[fable]

Quote:

Originally Posted by C Elegans I think you North American would be amazed if you realised how extremly little EU is actually doing

I was under the impression that the EU actually had a fair amount of control over such matters as tarriffs, production, and immigration. That isn't the case?

[C Elegans]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fable I was under the impression that the EU actually had a fair amount of control over such matters as tarriffs, production, and immigration. That isn't the case?

Not as much as one would think, actually. For instance, regarding immigration, the 15 pre-2004 EU countries have signed the Schengen treaty. This is supposed to mean we can travel and move easier between those 15 contries if we are already citizens of one Schengen-country. It also means that if a political asylum seeker from outside of EU applies for asylum and get rejected by one Schengen country, that person is not allowed to apply for asylum in another Schengen country.

However, a person who seeks asylum in a Schengen country however, are not assessed according to any kind of central standard, instead all individual countries apply their local regulation and standard. (I think this is horrible and inhumane, but let's not go into that now.) The effect is that each EU country decide how many, from where and what type of immigrants it takes in. If you compare the immigrations policy of for instance Finland and the Netherlands, the contrast is extreme.

[fable]

Latest word, via the BBC: Barroso has delayed a vote on the EU commissioners, which was supposed to go ahead today, because he doesn't have the numbers to win. Quoting from a piece in The Guardian:

Socialist officials estimated 362 legislators would have voted against the commission and 345 in favour. "He's done the numbers and knows he doesn't have a majority," said Denmark's Jens Peter Bonde, joint leader of the Eurosceptic Independence and Democracy group.

This part I found most interesting:

Mr Barroso unveiled a number of human rights initiatives yesterday in a last-ditch attempt to persuade MEPs to back his team as it stood. The plans included a European fundamental rights agency and a raft of other anti-discrimination initiatives, including new laws to outlaw discrimination on grounds of gender or sexual orientation.

...which immediately calls forth the question, "If these initiatives are so good that they could swing such a disastrous nomination, why weren't they recommended earlier? And if they're negliglble, won't those who oppose Buttiglione be all the more insulted by being offered such a transparent sop to their sensibilities?" I think we all know the answer to that one. Barroso considers his personal pride at stake, and he won't back down. This kind of posturing--and these kinds of nominations--do no credit to the EU.

[Silur]

Hey! Were the US of E, and we get to be as dumb as we like!

Seriously, most Italians I know are considering exile after the continuous debacle of Italy's governing term. Sadly, insulting politician's intelligence (by offering something that is so blatantly for swaying the polls) doesn't seem to have half the impact of insulting their pride, no matter what their nationality.

[C Elegans]

Happy ending: the clown Buttiglione stepped back as Italy's candidate volontarily, and it is likely that foreign minister Frattini or former commissioner Monti will replace Buttiglione.

BBC reports:

Quote:

His voice shaking with emotion, Mr Buttiglione said "I'm an innocent victim of an orchestrated campaign". He said his views about gays had been misquoted, and he criticised the press for superficial coverage. "I am not an adversary to human rights, I am a champion of them," he said.

No wonder all Italians I know view their politics as a reality soap

[CM]

Its very interesting to note that a man who voices his religious convictions openly (a right he has under any democractic country) he is refered to as a morn or imbecile, without taking into account his actual calibre at his job. If a personal opinion is what constitutes the right you have to a job, almost everybody would be unemployed.

[C Elegans]

Europe is highly secularised, and it has been decided in the EU that religion should have no influence on politics. However, it was not Buttiglione's religious beliefs per se that disqualified him, but the derrogatory and discriminating comments about homosexuality and single mothers.

[CM]

So a man can not hold public office because of his personal opinions? How do his personal opinions affect his compentency?

Just to note that I do find his comments insulting, but he has the right to voice them. I mean after all it is a bit shocking that a man can be excluded from office due to insensitive comments about a group of people.

[C Elegans]

That's the same argument as Barraso's, I however do think it is highly unsuitable to hold discriminative opinions even in private, when your speciality field in the commission is supposed to be justice, freedom and humanitarian issues. My view might have been different if his field would have been let's say taxes or environmental issues.

[CM]

I completely agree that ideally this situation should never have arisen and he shouldn't have made such remarks. But that is not the case. I just find it shocking that even in this day and age that people use personal biases to show that an individual is not competent for a job. This is not directed at the posters in this thread but rather at society as a whole.

After all nobody really knows if this man could have kept his personal opinions out of daily functions as a commisioner.