Shocked (no spam please)

[Maharlika]

Originally Posted by Brynn

What is the difference?

Legal separation means that the spouses live apart from one another but cannot remarry. Legal separation doesn't mean that the marriage ties are severed.

With an annulment, the marriage itself was "deleted," like it never really existed.

For more info click here: Annulment, Legal Separation and (non-existence of) Divorce in the Philippines.

As not to digress from the topic as requested by the thread starter , I would want to add that in such situations of falling out between spouses, the ultimate victims are the children.

[C Elegans]

@Oscuro: It's impossible to say what has been going on between the wife and the husband in this family. Even when we know people very well, or think we know people very well, a lot of things can go on in a family and between the wife and husband, that nobody from the outside know about. Just to give an example, a relative of mine who I've know all my life, married a man that we all found nice, stable and kind. They got two children, and all seemed fine. Then, when the daughter was 9 years old it turned out the father sexually abused her. Nobody would ever had thought that. Nobody ever thinks bad things are happening among people that appear nice. But they can, so I am always very cautious to form any opinion at all about a situation where I don't have information directly from the involved persons.

That said, a divorce is always a sad event for everybody involved, especially the children. A consolation though is that it's actually better for the children to have divorced parents than to have parents who live in a marriage they are unhappy and dissatisfied with.

I certainly think you should meet them, and try not to worry about what you should say. If you are friends, it will be more than enough for your friend to see and talk to you. You could say something like "I'm really sorry to hear about your parent's divorce, if you want to talk or something I'd be happy to listen.

Originally Posted by Maharlika

Yes, I'm finally leaving Bangkok after almost six years and head off home to be with my wife and son.

I am really happy to hear that you may finally reunion with your wife and son!

[Brynn]

Good lord... How come the wife didn't have any idea...?

[C Elegans]

@Brynn: The wife was working at a hospital technician and sometimes had night shifts. The daugther does not remember when the abuse started, but from what she has told, it seems they started in an "innocent" way like most sexual abuse of children. Hugs and kisses between parent and child get sexualised and gradually start to involve touching of genitalia. A small child age 3-4 doesn't realise there is something strange with this if daddy or mommy assure them it's fine. Also, as far as we know there was never a coital rape, so there were no physical injuries.
The girl didn't realise something was wrong with the fathers' way of touching her, until she got older. When she told the mother, she had relatively recently understood that this was not something all fathers do to their daughters. It should be noted that most parents who abuse their children sexually are very skilled emotional manipulators.

PS: Sorry for the OT Oscuro, I am by no means implying something like this has been occuring in your friends family, I just posted it as an example of things that can go on in a family without anybody noticing or knowning.

[Brynn]

Originally Posted by C Elegans

PS: Sorry for the OT Oscuro

I'm afraid it was me who led the conversation OT, sorry about that. It's just so horrible to hear something like this

As for the topic, am I the only one who is worried when seeing the latest tendencies of marriages and relationships? So many divorces, so many broken dreams and lives - if I thought it over (which I don't even dare) I would surely find more negative examples around me than positive ones... Somebody please thell me why it has to be like this...

[VonDondu]

Originally Posted by Oscuro_Sol

as I said, they had many fights over small things, like what drawer the forks went into and things like that. I can't imagine the husband doing anything to seriously anger the wife into something she would do out of spite or revenge.

I think that's the wrong way to interpret events. I don't think that people have extramarital affairs out of spite or revenge; the wife probably cheated on her husband because she was attracted to the other man and thought she could find fulfillment there. The husband might not have done anything at all to "anger" her. Although her actions had negative consequences, she probably didn't do it to hurt anyone. At worst, she probably knew that other people would be hurt by it but chose to do it, anyway. People have a way of rationalizing their behavior, and they don't think it's wrong to get what they want. So despite her callousness, I doubt that she intended to be malicious. For all we know, she might have struggled with her decision before she cheated on her husband.

I don't know anything about the situation, but from past experience, my guess would be that the wife has been unhappy with her marriage for a long time, and there's nothing that she or her husband could have done about it. So a breakup was probably inevitable. She probably felt like leaving him for a long time but just couldn't bring herself to end her marriage before she found a "catalyst" like having affair.

If a breakup was inevitable, then the pain was unavoidable. Of course, it's a shame that the wife cheated on her husband before she left him. That certainly made things worse. But honestly, do you think her husband would have felt much better if she had left him before she got involved with the other man? I think it would have hurt him almost as much.

I don't see how this situation could have had a happy ending. Divorces are painful to everyone involved, including the spouse who chose to leave. Let's just hope that they are as civil to each other as possible from now on.

@Brynn, I think the reason why people have so many more breakups these days is because: a) they're convinced they can find something better, and b) they feel like it's their right, and they owe it to themselves, to find the best possible mate instead of staying in a relationship that doesn't feel completely satisfying to them. They don't want to compromise or make sacrifices or settle for what they have and be happy with it. Their own desires take precedence over commitment.

I made the observation many years ago that if people had no choice, they might be happier with what they had. If they were denied the opportunity to search continually for something better, they might actually enjoy what they had instead of dwelling on its imperfections. I don't support arranged marriages, but maybe people who are in arranged marriages (where their partners were selected for them with great care) are happy because they try to make the best of what they have. If that's the case, they have an advantage over people who are free to make their own decisions and, as a result, never stop second-guessing themselves. It's just a thought.

[C Elegans]

Originally Posted by Brynn

Somebody please thell me why it has to be like this...

I could write a thesis about this, but I don't know if Oscuro think it's too far off his topic...in general though, I think the major reason is that in the old agricultural soceity, people needed to stick together for survival and also, you had a high social pressure to stay together since divorce was not accepted in society. It was not necessarily love that kept people together, but practical and financial things. Nowadays, both men and women can sustain themselves and people marry for love and they also have totally different expectations of what they should get out of marriage.

[Magrus]

Also, I've brought it up on the boards before...just like people can grow to love one another, they do the opposite too. You grow as a person as you age, and if you end up growing apart 10 years down the road, things have to change.

[Cuchulain82]

Originally Posted by VonDondu

I made the observation many years ago that if people had no choice, they might be happier with what they had. If they were denied the opportunity to search continually for something better, they might actually enjoy what they had instead of dwelling on its imperfections.

I think this is a very perceptive quote, Vondu. As they say, the grass is always greener...

Sol, I'm sorry. Maybe both parties will end up happier in the long run?

[dragon wench]

Originally Posted by Oscuro_Sol

Any thoughts on this event that could have passed for a drama special would be appreciated. I would also appreciate a limit on spam.

I don't know if this makes you feel any better, but there is every chance that the wife still cares for her husband. Relationships are one of the most complex things in human existence. My partner and I recently celebrated having been together for 17 years... but we don't take our relationship for granted, it is something that always needs work... and we have had many bumps. At several points we have come close to splitting up. I still view it as a rollercoaster... nothing... especially relationships... is ever written in stone.

Sometimes people become attracted/fall in love with others, but that doesn't mean they have stopped caring for the husband/wife etc. Sometimes there are many background reasons for this, other times there are not. Moreover, it is very possible to love more than one person at the same time, but our society does not generally support this reality. But affairs are never black and white... and the people who have them are not explicitly "bad." I'm not suggesting that affairs are ethically acceptable, necessarily. I'm only saying that they happen, and that the reasons are almost always deeply complex.

As others here have already stated.... it is neither possible nor advisable to speculate on what may or may not have happened... Much will have went on behind the scenes that nobody but the couple in question knows about.

[Oscuro_Sol]

Thanks for all the feedback, guys, don't worry about the OT stuff. It's all related, right?
I agree with the part about it being hardest for the kids. They're pretty old for "kids," but still, it's their parents.
I don't know. To me, the wife was always a little.. free. She always needed to be doing something with her work, and barely spent any time with the husband or children. Her mother, who just died last week actually laid down behind the wife and husband's car so they couldn't go on their honeymoon..

[Magrus]

I have to say, in some situations, it can be better for all involved after a seperation. It was that way with my family when my parents split up. Far less abuse for my brother and I and my parents seemed be under less emotional stress after getting used to being seperated. It may work out for the best for your friend and her siblings and father.

[giles337]

Hmmm. I faced this situation, but (IMO) even worse, when my best friends father (literally, like a second father to me) killed himself. It's just hit me so hard that these things DO happen. If you are still feeling shaken by it, spend time with you friend. This should help. (Did for me, anyway)

[Magrus]

One of my ex's dealt with this. He was gay and didn't want to leave his family and couldn't cope with it because he grew up catholic. Shot himself and my ex found him in their house with a note. She hasn't been the same since, but her mother went off the deep end. She wasn't right before this but REALLY far off the deep end after reading that note.