Russia invades Georgia - WW3 on it's way?

[SupaCat]

True, I looked it up to be sure. Though I hardly think the russian attack for the pipeline, since it is has a great deal of shareholders, such as Great Britain, USA and France. And yes 34 miles isn't far as seen in numbers, but when looking at the position of the pipeline you can say it is unlikely the russian will go that far. I really don't think the russian can't afford to go there, since the international pressure will gain its boiling point if they do.

[Lady Dragonfly]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xandax 34 miles from South Ossetia is hardly "nowhere near".

The whole South Ossetia is roughly 30x50 miles. If you mean Russia wants to get one step closer to the pipeline then yeah...

But why bother? It has already been blown up by the curds.

[Tricky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xandax Well, to be fair - a lot of the information is sketchy and Russia and Georgia both have their sides of the story.

Sigh, and no one here except for me has tried get to *a* relevant point. Pipelines. Fine, whatever. Here's a picture of one.

[Lady Dragonfly]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tricky Sigh, and no one here except for me has tried get to *a* relevant point. Pipelines. Fine, whatever. Here's a picture of one.

A relevant point is Georgia became our oh-so-valued ally because it has 2000 troops in Iraq. The US trains Georgian soldiers. In Georgia. The US also provides M-16 and other weaponry to Georgia. Reminds me of Afganistan.

Do you think Russia should love all that?

The Georgian El Stupido felt emboldened by Dubya's backing when he ordered the bombing of SO hospitals and schools and killed 2000 civilians 3 hours after he declared cease-fire. What was he thinking would happen next? Well, stupid idiots don't think, that's the problem. He was beaten up and thrown out. Now he is begging for truce and Russia tells him to go to Hell. You reap what you sow. No sympathy from me.

EDIT: just to add this-

(Reuters) Russian television showed what it said were pictures from Tskhinvali of burnt-out buildings, wounded civilians receiving medical treatment in basements and weeping mothers complaining of a lack of food and water.

"The Georgian tanks fired at everything they saw, including women and children," one man said after his evacuation over the border to the Russian region of North Ossetia.

Pictures on NTV television showed Tskhinvali's main hospital in ruins and most of its 200 patients crammed into the basement. Patients, many of them wincing, were receiving treatment on tabletops.

A few bare light bulbs provided scant illumination and the report said the hospital had no ready supply of water. Some patients sat listlessly on beds crammed into a tiny, dim area with unfinished walls.

Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin cut short his visit to the Olympics on Saturday and flew to a field hospital in North Ossetia, visiting wounded troops and evacuees, and denouncing what he termed Georgia's "crimes against its own people."

[galraen]

Doubtless the troubles with Chechnya were all Chechnya's fault, and of course Oleg Gordievsky poisoned himself!

When the Russian foreign minister says Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili "must go", and Russia's embassador to the refuses to deny that regime change is it's objective and refers to Georgia's leaders as 'obstacles' I think Russia's motives are pretty obvious. Especially when it starts arming terrorists elsewhere in Georgia and starts to make moves to support them.

[Xandax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tricky Sigh, and no one here except for me has tried get to *a* relevant point. Pipelines. Fine, whatever. Here's a picture of one.

That's a bit of a stretch, that statement.
Others have "tried" to get a relevant point across - it just seems you disagree with it and think it isn't relevant.

On other notes, it looks as Georgia is willing to make a peace treaty, yet Russia continues to bomb/fight near Tbilisi, looking more like an invading force instead of a "peacekeeping" one. Russia is looking more and more like wanting to "punish" Georgia.

[Lady Dragonfly]

Quote:

Originally Posted by galraen Doubtless the troubles with Chechnya were all Chechnya's fault, and of course Oleg Gordievsky poisoned himself!

What does it have to do with South Ossetia?
And, by the way, Chechnya is a bandit state where Al-Qaeda feels right at home.

Quote:

When the Russian foreign minister says Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili "must go", and Russia's embassador to the refuses to deny that regime change is it's objective and refers to Georgia's leaders as 'obstacles' I think Russia's motives are pretty obvious. Especially when it starts arming terrorists elsewhere in Georgia and starts to make moves to support them.

You know, Georgia was a part of Russian Empire and later the USSR for over 200 years. Georgian separatists and nationalists took the opportunity to break away in 80s. Sacred independence and such. Something Georgia is entitled to and South Ossetia is apparently not, from Georgian point of view. The ultimate irony.

They are all corrupted, Galraen. Georgia is corrupted to the last degree.
Just a few facts you might find interesting:

"Conflicts in early 1990s, the subsequent loss of the government control over Abkhazia and South Ossetia and corruption permeating state structures all contributed to Georgia’s becoming a transit territory for Afghan heroin and
morphine. It is estimated that only 5% of all opiates trafficked through Georgia is intercepted.
Corruption: Corruption in Georgia is endemic. During the Shevardnadze regime, it is believed that border guards, policemen, minister of interior were implicated in drug smuggling and refining.
Money laundering: 80% of the Georgian economy is cash-based and according to an OECD survey, up to 80% of the Georgian economy is in the shadow economy.
Human trafficking is a major problem in Georgia. Georgians, both men and women destined for illegal work, prostitution and forced labour enter Western Europe through three routes. One through Turkey, Bulgaria, Macedonia to Greece. One through Latvia, Poland to Germany or through the Czech Republic to Germany. To the US, Georgians mostly travel through Russia and Mexico onwards to the US."

Now Dubya who is having fun in China right now, took the moral high ground and said that "violence is unacceptable". I laughed my tail off.

[DarthBob]

Yeah but I thought that it wasnt a province of Georgia! I thought it was semi independantand that Georgia wanted to take back as a province of Georgia. Is it me or does this kind of sound like the falklands all over again? One country says it's theres the other says its theres and the one whos invading, the people there dont seem to want to join!

[Moonbiter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Dragonfly Now Dubya who is having fun in China right now, took the moral high ground and said that "violence is unacceptable". I laughed my tail off.

Yeah, I especially enjoyed the "Georgia is a sovereign nation, and it's borders must be respected" -part. His poo-faced expression was priceless. I think even he understands that nobody's gonna take that seriously coming from him, or any other US politician for for the next 250 years or so.

[galraen]

That is a very good point Moonbiter, unfortunately I don't think there's a country in the world who can critisize Russia without being hypocritical, especially imperialist countries like the US and UK.

That's also true of the nuclear debate of course, it doesn't seem to occur to anyone in the US that they come across as grossly hypocritical when they complain about Iran developing Nukes. Hey, who has the biggest stockpile of Nukes and is the only country to actually have used them? Pure Homerisms everytime Dubya or any US politician opens his/her mouth on that issue!

That doesn't mean that the rest of us shouldn't express concern and/or protest when the scumbag politicians of any country behave badly. If we keep protesting maybe someone will listen, yeah, I know pipedream.

I must confess to finding Lady Dragonfly's 'Russia's always right everyone else is wrong' attitude rather puzzling. Russia's actions are wrong even according to their own position is other similar circumstances. They protest about other countries interfering in a third countries internal affairs, but it's fine if they do it is it? Block the UN from intervening when it suits them, but then do exctly the same thing themselves, heck Putin is just as bad and hypocritical and dangerous as Dubya, but we mustn't critisize him?

[GawainBS]

Actually, Russia had the biggest stockpile of nuclear weapons.

Apart from that, you've got a pretty good point.

[galraen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GawainBS Actually, Russia had the biggest stockpile of nuclear weapons. Apart from that, you've got a pretty good point.

Didn't a large chunk of the Soviets nuclear arsenal wind up in what are now independent states? How long they'll remain independent is now in doubt of course, it looks to me like Putin's aim is regain as much of the old SU that he can!

[GawainBS]

Let's hope they didn't wind up in the independent nations.

[Kipi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by galraen Didn't a large chunk of the Soviets nuclear arsenal wind up in what are now independent states?

That's true, but those are still under ownership or Russian.
Also, didn't USA also have part of it's own nuclear arsenal divided in other countries?

[SupaCat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kipi Also, didn't USA also have part of it's own nuclear arsenal divided in other countries?

True, but since the war in Iraq there has been alot of protest against these locations and many countries want them out. I also believe the nuclear missles of the russians are disabled, while the american are not.