Pope John Paul II, 84, what happens next?

[Maharlika]

May you rest in peace.

I have created this thread for those who would want to post their sentiments as well as thoughts surrounding the possibilities after his death, thereby relieving fable's thread of unecessary posts that would just dilute the discussion regarding the Pope's 25 year papacy.

[fable]

Judging from the fact that John Paul II appointed more than 90% of the current College of Cardinals--who will in turn select the next pope--it's likely his successor will be very much (IMO) in the same mold. I expect to see a doctrinaire arch-conservative who continues to rein in or force resignations from the left of the RCC, but possesses ample visual charisma and an outgoing nature. I don't foresee any policy changes. I wish I could say otherwise, but for better or worse, this pope has stamped the RCC with his image, ideas and actions more than any in several hundred years. The liberal, ecumenical, work-with-people Church of John XXIII has been extinguished for the near future.

[Macleod1701]

Who cares! The poor guy was near the end for a long time. The church will never change and will continue to spout useless garbage no matter which idiot is in charge

[CM]

Originally Posted by fable

Judging from the fact that John Paul II appointed more than 90% of the current College of Cardinals--who will in turn select the next pope--it's likely his successor will be very much (IMO) in the same mold. I expect to see a doctrinaire arch-conservative who continues to rein in or force resignations from the left of the RCC, but possesses ample visual charisma and an outgoing nature. I don't foresee any policy changes. I wish I could say otherwise, but for better or worse, this pope has stamped the RCC with his image, ideas and actions more than any in several hundred years. The liberal, ecumenical, work-with-people Church of John XXIII has been extinguished for the near future.

Same as fable, but then again i am conservative so I don't see it as a bad thing. However i agree with the factual parts of the entire posts. The liberals are dead and buried and the stamp of the Pope shall remain for centuries.

[fable]

Originally Posted by Macleod1701

Who cares! The poor guy was near the end for a long time. The church will never change and will continue to spout useless garbage no matter which idiot is in charge

I don't think any pope has ever been an idiot, and I'd hardly describe John Paul II as one. If you demonize and stereotype anything you don't like and assume "Everybody associated with it is the same," you'll never spot differences or be able to discuss the realities of a situation.

[HighLordDave]

I don't think John Paul II's legacy will be centuries-long, but it will be considerable, if only because of his longevity.

I think the next pope will have to be as energetic as this past one; in recent years he has appeared enfebled by the Parkinson's, but for the first 10-15 years of his papacy, he travelled more than any other and was seen by more people than any previous pope.

However, I also think the next pope will be older; I don't think the Catholic church wants another 26 year reign.

[mewp]

Usually the Church has elected a Pope that is very different from the last one. This may change but it has been thus for ages. I do think he will be older. They usually don't want someone that will be there that long. Which is a shame, it would be nice to have someone who is energetic. However, John 23 was elected partially because he was old. They didn't think he would have time to make any major changes. So, you never know.

[Maharlika]

Originally Posted by Macleod1701

Who cares! The poor guy was near the end for a long time. The church will never change and will continue to spout useless garbage no matter which idiot is in charge

First of all, I'm speaking as a member and not as a mod (hence the teal font) and I take offense on this sweeping statement since I'm Catholic. What useless garbage are you talking about? All of the tenets the religion espouses?

Who cares? Well, I'll give you roughly a billion people who do.

I may not agree with all the things PJP2 would have us follow (mainly, the use of contraceptives) but he did do things that are good. I understand fable's point re: Africa, HIV and the (non)use of condoms though I would like to think that he had no intention of having these people die. I just see that the Church is too rigid on this issue on the use of contraceptives other than the rhythm method.

What is problematic is that the repercussions of their related policies (for the faithfuls to follow) are very alarming and needs to be thought of considering the times. I hope that the new pope would have another vatican council to address contemporary issues such as this one.

Although, as fable indicated, PJP2 has handpicked most of the candidates, I would still like to think that the next pope would be relatively be more "objective" (liberal) than most people would expect.

[fable]

Mah (or anybody), do you think the next pope will devolve more power to the episcopal conferences on various continents? That would permit regionalized solutions cognizant of different cultural attitudes. But it would also take a lot for the College of Cardinals and the Papacy to swallow women priests, married priests, a neutral stance towards gays, a more active role in promoting democracy (Liberation Theology), endrosement of condom use, far greater responsiveness of the local RCC and its priests to the community instead of simply to bishops, etc. Can the RCC, which has become so centralized under John Paul II, move so quickly to dispense even a small portion of the power it has gathered?

[Maharlika]

It's possible, fable... although highly improbable given the tendency of the College of Cardinals of being an "Old Boys' Club". But once that opportunity presents itself and the next Pope does some significant reconsiderations, then things, IMHO, would turn out relatively better for their constituents. One could never know what fate has in store for us.

I feel that the RCC would eventually be less rigid... the only question is, when?

[fable]

Originally Posted by Maharlika

I feel that the RCC would eventually be less rigid... the only question is, when?

Major mainstream religions these days are becoming far, far more polarized, Mah. I've read estimates that there are now 40,000,000 Americans who label themselves "fundamentalist." Evangelical fundamentalism is also picking up in Europe. More extreme Islamic groups are spreading quickly. Israel's hawkish Likud party is everywhere triumphant, save where arch-conservative fringe parties gain. Everybody seems out to grab new recruits, to add to the faithful, to attack other groups and to mix religion and politics in a deadly blend.

And right now, the selection of one of the main players rests with a small group of men, nearly all over 70 years of age, arthritically dogmatic in their thinking. You're right, I think. There's little reason for hope at this moment.

[Maharlika]

@fable:As far as the Phils go, there is the tendency for religions to come out and break away from the RCC. What I do know is that roughly 90% of us are Christians but that does not mean that all the Christians are Catholics. The RCC here is a little bit (just a wee bit) concious about this so they try to keep their flock from going astray by having "open lines" of communication with groups such as the El Shaddai.

The way I see it, when there are more opportunities for people to be exposed to other people's culture and plight (internet and high-tech mass media come to mind), then there is the greater possibility for everyone to be less rigid. Sorry if I sound a bit naive, but I would rather be somewhat optimistic despite all these things. *shrugs*

Originally Posted by fable

And right now, the selection of one of the main players rests with a small group of men, nearly all over 70 years of age, arthritically dogmatic in their thinking.

In that case we have roughly another 10 years to wait for a liberal one...

Eventually I hope, the next generations of priests would become more "global" in thinking and the ultra-conservatives would just dwindle in numbers...

[Yeltsu]

---Edited away---

Disclaimer: I wasn't aware that the words I used were seen as profanity by the filter, for that I apologize.
I'll just keep quiet about my views on religion in the future then, since people are obviously offended by them. I didn't mean to offend anyone, I guess I just got carried away, I just really dislike religion as a whole, and all the horrible things that have been done in the name of religion.

I'll leave this thread before I start writing things people don't like again...

[Maharlika]

@Yeltsu: If I were you, I would edit that post of yours right away without having a mod delete your post outright and give you a formal warning. This thread is not a discussion whether you believe in religion or not. You're an atheist? Fine. But no religion bashing please.

I have no plans in trying to have you converted nor will I condemn you just because you are not of my religion, so please, for the love of what is polite and proper, keep your intolerance to yourself.

Fable is a Wiccan and despite his disagreement (and that is even putting it lightly) with the RCC on numerous things, I, as a Catholic, was never offended with the way he airs his PoV.

[Luis Antonio]

I'm Brazilian, and AFAIK, this is the american country with the larger catholic population. Till the current days, non-catholics are looked upon with anger but that was very worst before John Paul came... That is a great merit he has, I can assure it was his work. Every time he came here, he'd talk about uniting the people, not discriminating - even though he was against certain groups of people, and some ideas. May he really rest in peace.

As for what he did, we're being bombed every day with hours of news about his death, his life, his desire to be an actor in the past. I dont really like it. Even non catholic televisions (yes we *do* have three religious televisions, two evangelists and one catholic) are using his death as a marketing form, telling how much was he a hero to everyone, and that all he did was ok, that even his refusal to accept anticonceptional and protective methods for sex - even better, his stubbornness(sp?) to accept sex for pleasure - was due to his strenght of faith and good character.

I cant really agree. I guess he done great political maneuver - never a Rome pope was seen articulating in so many fronts, and never a pope seemed so interested into peace - and also, I think that he had a really good thought when he apologized for the mistakes of his church, in the past. But I cant really agree that such a wondrous man wouldnt see what his flock needs, wants and will do as what should be done. His desires regarding eutanasia, and sex were pretty unilateral, and jeopardized(sp?) lots of people (specially the young ones that shout for everyone that he was the young people pope) with serious STD's.

I really hope he rest in peace. His last days were marked with torment and faith. Let us hope that he next pope continue his political maneuvers, but thinking more into protecting the people, instead of asking for something that the people wont do.