Organ donors. Cash and CARRION ? (No Spam, s'il vous plait !)

[Beldin]

Another week another topic.

The other day I talked with some friends about getting a "donor's pass" (sp ??) .

Since I'm a motorcyclist I thought it would be nice to know that my innards could be of use for someone when the - ahem - manure -ahem- finally hits the rotating blades for me....

One of my friends was dead set against it - he said that it would be like signing his own death warrant...

After some interrogation he told us that no paramedic or surgeon would really try to keep me alive - at least as long as there was someone with more money around who needed some spare parts ... .

So what do you think ? Should I sign up as a donor - and hope that he's wrong ? Or do you know more about this "take'em ol'kidneys (or whatever) out while he's still breathing" stuff ?
( Here's looking at you, CE !)

No worries,

Beldin

[Eerhardt]

AFAIK, the law in Belgium states that, after death, every registered citizen is already considered a donor, unless he/she has in life stated officially that he/she is against the use of his/her organs after death.

As to the subject of organ trade, any physician who engages in such activities, is breaking the Oath he has sworn and is not worth his title (which is not to say, sadly , that it doesn't happen).

But when the physicians act conscientiously, I think getting a donor pass is worth considering. Your organs are of no use to you when your dead, but they might help save somebody else's life .

Just my 2 cents...

[Rob-hin]

Quote:

Originally posted by Beldin After some interrogation he told us that no paramedic or surgeon would really try to keep me alive - at least as long as there was someone with more money around who needed some spare parts ... .

That story is well known in The Netherlands too.
And frankly, I don't believe it.

I wouldn't mind beiing a donor, BUT, how do I know who gets saved?
Perhaps they'll save some criminal with my organs.
Thats what most bugs me.
Have you thought of that?



Perhaps it's an idea to keep the organs in the family(so to speak). Though thats probably impossible to realise.
Unless organs can be stored for some time somehow, but then the costs would be very high.
I don't know, I'm just thinking out-loud here.

[Littiz]

Quote:

After some interrogation he told us that no paramedic or surgeon would really try to keep me alive - at least as long as there was someone with more money around who needed some spare parts ...

Likely, especially in the states where hospital are NOT a public service.

Basically donation is a good thing, but there are terrible aspects involved.
A few days ago news talked about a 5 years old kid in desperate need of a new heart.
Then they showed her, she was in the bed moving as much as she could...
Everyone was moved of course.
But then the speakers, doctors and everybody start to say that we must
"HOPE" for a new heart to arrive soon!
Hey!!
Do you realize you're asking for death of ANOTHER kid, or not???
Is that right?
If I was her father, how much might I hope for such a thing?
It's understandable, but not right, really

(when will we see perfect artificial organs? )

[Osiris]

I have no great fears about having a donor card. When organs become available here there is a priority roster for who gets first chance at them (depending also on tissue type, distance from donor etc), not the highest bidder.

Also, once a body's heart stops beating, organs have very limited use. Most donor organs come from accident victims with severe brain damage, where the body can be kept "alive" on a resusitator, but there is no evidence of brain activity.

Littiz raises a very good point. BBC TV produced an excellent documentary a few years ago, (called "Will they call tonight?")keeping track of five people in desperate need of donor hearts. A couple of them mentioned that it seemed ghoulish that they had to hope for someone else to die in order for them to have a chance to live. Incidentally, three of the five died before they received donor organs.

Personally, I like the idea that after I'm dead, some bits of me will still be walking around helping someone else make it through the day.....

[fable]

I have an organ donor card. I don't fear any stealing of my organs at this point, and I know it would be silly of me to believe that I'm going to live forever. My body will cease to be "me" or a part of me when I'm dead; why shouldn't I give away something that's so easy to give, in that case? Even a miser might consider doing so, and I'm hardly that. If someone else can enjoy life with such an easy donation, good for them.

[Beldin]

BUT - my dear fable.....the fact that someone might stop to "aid" you - because he'll finally be able to afford his new Mercedes if he brings your liver to Larry Hagman nice and fresh .... How about that ?

How about some doctor screwing up on purpose while taking out your appendix, just because your kidneys look the right size for some BIG and WEALTHY pisser ?

No worries,

Beldin

[fable]

Quote:

Originally posted by Beldin BUT - my dear fable.....the fact that someone might stop to "aid" you - because he'll finally be able to afford his new Mercedes if he brings your liver to Larry Hagman nice and fresh .... How about that ? How about some doctor screwing up on purpose while taking out your appendix, just because your kidneys look the right size for some BIG and WEALTHY pisser ?

I have yet to see a single documented case of an organ donor scam. IMO, this is the kind of stuff that urban legends are made of.

[Beldin]

Quote:

Originally posted by fable I have yet to see a single documented case of an organ donor scam. IMO, this is the kind of stuff that urban legends are made of.

I'm inclined to believe that, but to put it on a more realistic basis - how do you define "dead" ? - WHEN does YOUR right to your organs end, and where does the "donor" part come in ?

If your heart stops for long enough - you're considered dead - but if it's stopped for too long, your organs won't be of any use ...so WHO does decide WHEN you're dead - and that's the point BEYOND revocery ?

Who decides if they'll use the defibrillator (sp?) one more time or not ?

Beldin

[HighLordDave]

In the United States, I have no fear that a doctor is going to say, "Well, we could save this guy, but I happen to know someone in Tacoma who has the exact same blood type and who's likleyhood of rejection of his kidney is so low, we'll stop trying to resuscitate him and send his parts across the country."

I know of no doctor who would decide to stop trying to save someone's life because they had their eyes on the organs. To my knowledge, no one makes any money buying and selling organs in the US; in fact, I think it's illegal.

I am an organ donor because as people have mentioned before, I've got no use for my body after I'm dead. I also would like to think that I could help save someone's life through giving my organs. I don't think that ER doctors sit around thinking about which patients to let die so that their organs can be harvested and which ones can be saved.

The instances where triage units decide which patients are going to receive treatment and which ones will not are restricted to large-scale trauma units where a lot of victims come in during a short period of time and there are a finite number of resources available to treat the wounded. I happen to know some doctors who had a military background and they said that it was the hardest thing they were ever faced with, but not once did they ever mention that organ donation would factor in to their decisions.

[T'lainya]

I know that here in the states there are very strict rules on when they can declare a person brain dead and harvest organs. There is a long list of criteria and family permission or prior permission via organ donor card is required. There is no witholding of any sort of medical treatment for donors, that would not only be against medical ethics, but could also prove damaging to the organs they wish to harvest. I've been present at 2 major harvests in my clinical work, it's sad to see someone die in an unexpected and tragic manner (or any manner at all). The generosity of organ donors is one of the most wonderful gifts out there, a gift of life or sight for someone else.

[Weasel]

In the US, I would be more afraid of someone knocking me out in a bar (or bed) and then stealing my organs....than of a legal donor card allowing some doctor to decide the rich and famous deserve it.

As to how true the stories of someone waking up in a bath tub missing a kidney...I have no idea...true or false.

I plan on donating my Brain for the good of Mankind.

[McBane]

I too, have an organ donor card. I have never thought of the possibility that I would not receive proper medical attention because someone else would pay more. I guess that make me somewhat naive, but I have no worries that this will happen.

@ Littez - I don't think families of people waiting for transplant are hoping for someone to die. They know the reality of where donated organs come from. The hope is that IF someone were to lose their life, they may have a chance a saving another. This also give the families of the donor the small comfort that despite the death of their loved ones, there was some good that has resulted.

[fable]

Quote:

Originally posted by Beldin If your heart stops for long enough - you're considered dead - but if it's stopped for too long, your organs won't be of any use ...so WHO does decide WHEN you're dead - and that's the point BEYOND revocery ?

The posts that followed our exchange should set your mind at ease regarding unnecessary organ removal in the US. It's the kind of crime that would get a physician locked up for decades, and result in all sorts of fines and legal action against any hospital sustaining such a practice. Simply put, the punishments make the crime completely untenable. Selling hopstial drugs illegally involves less stigma than stealing organs.

[Beldin]

Topic related LINK .

Don't flame me - I've just found this link (using "www.mamma.com") , and didn't take the time to read through all of it - I just read the first few sentences...

But it might be of interest when discussing "death or not"...

I'm outta here for today, I'll read up on the link tomorrow !

No worries,

Beldin


PS: Latest update - you might also want to read this and perhaps this and this.

DISCLAIMER : I've just browsed the headlines of those pages due to my tight schedule. I promise to read up on all of it tomorrow !