New law in Greece

[der Moench]

All I have to say is:

World ---> Hell ---> Handbasket.

[Beldin]

Quote:

Originally posted by Xandax Hmm - comparing laws against computer games to stop gambling (or something) with laws against drugs hardly seems plausible.

We might want to discuss this in a kind of "Governmental Jungement Errors thread" ....

No worries,

Beldin

[Xandax]

Quote:

Originally posted by Beldin We might want to discuss this in a kind of "Governmental Jungement Errors thread" ....

Or in an "Way to go" - laws thread

[Beldin]

Quote:

Originally posted by Xandax Or in an "Way to go" - laws thread

Fine by me...I can see some nice discussions coming up - but sadly not this week - I have to leave within the next hour....but I'll gladly participate in any discussion on Governmental Errors ...

No worries, have a nice weekend !

Beldin

[Demis]

Ok after a further research about this, I have to say that the first time I heard it I got extremely angry but now I’m feeling very disappointed as well. This stupid law is so badly written than the Greek Government is going to have a hard time with it if it does not alter it or cancel it. I cannot believe the unawareness and misinformation that the people behind this have.

After reading a few articles it all comes down to this:

In an effort to control gambling after the events I previously said with the internet casino, actually this was caused because of some owners converted some gaming machines into gambling machines which they were controlling with remotes or something like that, they rushed (Elections period) into creating this law, and to be covered, the law was written with so many grey areas than you can get as many interpretations as you can think off.

I always thought until now that laws are very specific

For example:

• Playing a game is forbidden but buying/selling games is not
• If you take the law by letter almost every single item can be included (see the link as of what the law is prohibiting), thus is banned.
• There is no, I repeat, no clarification about which kind of games they want to ban which places solitaire, chess and every other simple game that even OS include, computer games, video games etc in the ban list.

The law translated in English here.

By all these, there will be consciences because of this bad, inaccurate, unspecified, hilarious and stupid law. First of all, the nation that invented democracy has been exposed to the world with this by far anti-democratic act. And second because of this law, police and public alike can easily exploit the law, the police by selective law enforces and the public with sues (you can actually sue everyone with this).

Also the media did not give the publicity that the owed to so the law somehow left unnoticed (that’s way I did heard that on the news maybe), but now huge pressures are going or did take place. Personally I cannot see the law to stand as it is, and even if not canceled there are going to be huge changes with it, but the stain will stay.

Excuse my rambling and the long post, but I felt so bad about this. I am after all an avid gamer and I cannot stand this. Please consider that the things I said above are my personal opinions and conclusion after reading several articles about this.

For those who think or believe that same as me, there is an online petition about this here

[fable]

@Demis, it sounds like this law is more of a thing to be embarassed over, rather than worried about. I suspect it will be thrown out by your courts at once. Hard to believe that any legislature could turn out something so blatantly ludicrous. Usually, politicians try to keep from making asses quite that obviously of themselves.

[Demis]

I'm pretty embassased too, i still can't believe that they voted for such a law.
Anyway i'll try to keep the members here informed of what it is to happen with this.

[Weasel]

All governments makes mistakes...there will never be a perfect government, but as long as the people of the government has a voice in the running of the government, it can correct its self.

[Demis]

Quote:

Originally posted by Weasel All governments makes mistakes...there will never be a perfect government, but as long as the people of the government has a voice in the running of the government, it can correct its self.

I agree, but this is huge and i can't wait to see it fixed

[Bloodmist]

Oh, thats just nice! Forbid games....
Who in the world came up with the idea?! And now it gets carried out in practice! What would i do without computer games. I have been playing games since i was, what six.(not that im that old ) Without games like BG2 and other rpgs i wouldn't be nearly as good at English as i am. (and im danish) Games like Soldier of Fortune and Quake might be violent, but that doesn't make me go out and shoot my classmates. (only on the web) You have to be a bit sick before playing the games, if you go out and draw a gun at your friends.

[Xandax]

Quote:

Originally posted by Bloodmist Oh, thats just nice! Forbid games.... <snip> You have to be a bit sick before playing the games, if you go out and draw a gun at your friends.

The problem with this law, is that it wasn't made to prevent violence in connection with violent computer games, but the fact that it was to hinder gambling via the computer.
It is overkill like shooting greek legislators with 12 inc. haubitzers (no - computer games didn't make me violent - 'twas the army )

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

That's harsh, alright.

Quote:

Originally posted by Xandax Hmm - comparing laws against computer games to stop gambling (or something) with laws against drugs hardly seems plausible.

Actually, the parallel is oddly apt, seeing as the beginnings of the criminalisation of marijuana was done in no small part as an extension of the Prohibition against alcohol.

[Xandax]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ode to a Grasshopper That's harsh, alright. Actually, the parallel is oddly apt, seeing as the beginnings of the criminalisation of marijuana was done in no small part as an extension of the Prohibition against alcohol.

.... and opium and morphine was once legal to use - and outlawed - still it is not plausible to compare the outlawing of drugs with the banning of gaming (computer games et all) in greece.

[fable]

Remember, gaming has been banned by legislators who were actually seeking a way to control gambling. The connection between playing a computer game (often a solitary occupation, and almost never one that involves betting) and gambling (a social activity) is extremely tenuous. The connection between alcohol and drug use is very plain, since acohol *is* a drug. And alcohol/drug abuse was an endemic problem at the time--still is, in some cultures, such as Russia. There's no perception by the Greek government of a zealous need to stamp out gambling or gaming; it's just a desire to keep gambling under government control, given its primary importance as a source of ready, taxable income.

Of course, there are always the right wing religious fanatics out there who want to outlaw gambling and computer gaming, but I don't think we need to worry about their influence in this regard.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Quote:

Originally posted by Xandax .... and opium and morphine was once legal to use - and outlawed - still it is not plausible to compare the outlawing of drugs with the banning of gaming (computer games et all) in greece.

Not, I have to agree, with the outlawing of all drugs, however as Beldin points out the parallels between marijuana in particular being outlawed to stop alcohol (and later heroin) use and video games being outlawed to stop online gambling are quite fitting.

I fail to see how banning internet-incapable consoles such as Game Boys et al helps stop online gambling at all, mind you.