| | Neurosciene ..... color me impressed.
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10-26-2004, 02:39 AM
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Okay - granted. I know next to nothing about such sciene as this - but it seems rather impressive to me. http://www.napa.ufl.edu/2004news/braindish.htm | | |
10-26-2004, 03:28 AM
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That's pretty nifty there.  | | |
10-26-2004, 03:31 AM
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Colour me sceptic.
It seems a bit far, far away in the future before they can actually accomplish such a thing. But that's just my opinion, not really based on any theory.
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10-26-2004, 07:06 AM
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Neuroscience is my choosen field as many of you already know.
DeMarse's experimental setup is very and includes an immense lot of work.
They have set up a cell culture of embryonic rat neurons, a method for the culture to survive well, and then they connect it (via an electronic grid system) to a feeback system (a neural pattern recogniser). Similar systems exist in other labs as well, although DeMarse's may be the most advanced.
The full article can be found here: http://www.neuro.gatech.edu/groups/p...utonRobots.pdf
@Rob-hin: What part of it seems far away? Living neural networks of course has a long way to go when it comes to reliability, so they won't be useful for anything practical yet, but the method is already there. However, note that 25 000 neurons, as they use in this cell culture, is very little. A snail has about 10 000 neurons. A crab has about 100 000. A real, living rat has about 150 million neurons. A human has about 100 billion neurons, and each of them has about 10 000 synaptic connections. Just for comparison.
PS - in terms of ration between neurons-other cells, Caenorhabditis Elegans has the largest proportion of neurons. Of the 959 somatic cells, 381 are neurons. So in percent, C Elegans in the most brainy creature on earth! *A neuron is a nerve cell, a "brain cell".
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10-26-2004, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by C Elegans Neuroscience is my choosen field as many of you already know.
<snip>
[/i] | Noo? - Really? - you sure?
Why haven't you told us before?
Was acutally why I posted it here - because I was very impressed and knew you would know about it  | | |
10-26-2004, 07:40 AM
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@Xan: Really, you haven't missed it?
I think it's a pity that media report so little about what happens in science, since people in general are usually interested, and it also gives interesting and often hopeful perspecitives for the future. It also rises difficult questions of course, but if people aren't updated with the scientific development, how can they then take stance in important issues on a political level when the day for implementation comes?
Well, neuroscience-technology is a fast developing field that holds much promise for the future and for anyone who is interested in both advanced engineering-technology and biology/the brain, it's a wonderful field to work in. Personally, I work only with human brains (I'm a lousy cell gardener), but at my institution we have labs working with neural networks, simulations, cultivated cells and other technology-biology combination areas.
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10-26-2004, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by C Elegans @Rob-hin: What part of it seems far away? Living neural networks of course has a long way to go when it comes to reliability, so they won't be useful for anything practical yet, but the method is already there. However, note that 25 000 neurons, as they use in this cell culture, is very little. A snail has about 10 000 neurons. A crab has about 100 000. A real, living rat has about 150 million neurons. A human has about 100 billion neurons, and each of them has about 10 000 synaptic connections. Just for comparison.
[/i] | that was actually one of the points that made me sceptic. As far as I know, the brain is one of the least understood aspects out there. At least in recreating it or makeing something that can compare with it. Keep in mind, that I don't know that much about this subject.
Sure, computers can calculate like hell, but they are still a long way from reaching the level of a brain. A artifical brain to replace a computer seems hard as two systems are murged; 'natural flesh' and 'artificial computers'. I''m not that thrilled about that cobination, mostly because of the ethics part of it. (not that I think it's evil or anything. )
I'm sure there has been much research to it, but IMO it will be a while before artificial brain actually can fly a plane. Not only researchwise, but pigs will fly before I'll let myself fly by a fake brain! I think many others feel that way.
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10-26-2004, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by C Elegans @Xan: Really, you haven't missed it?
I think it's a pity that media report so little about what happens in science, since people in general are usually interested, and it also gives interesting and often hopeful perspecitives for the future. It also rises difficult questions of course, but if people aren't updated with the scientific development, how can they then take stance in important issues on a political level when the day for implementation comes?
<snip>. | Yeah news can be hard to find if you aren't within that field yourself. I had to find this news on a danish "geek-news" side, and then dig up the original source from where I linked it.
I've not seen it on any other danish newssite.
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10-26-2004, 09:46 AM
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Does anyone think something like whats going on with stem cell research will happen to this too? Would they really let brain cells operate machines when they wont even let stem cells save someones life?
I love your posts CE
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10-26-2004, 01:52 PM
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PS - in terms of ration between neurons-other cells, Caenorhabditis Elegans has the largest proportion of neurons. Of the 959 somatic cells, 381 are neurons. So in percent, C Elegans in the most brainy creature on earth!
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I get it now! Your nick makes sense! Joy of Joys! And anyway.... i thought knowledge was your specialist subject 
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10-26-2004, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Rob-hin that was actually one of the points that made me sceptic. As far as I know, the brain is one of the least understood aspects out there. At least in recreating it or makeing something that can compare with it. | We know very little about how the human brain functions, and thus we can't construct anything that is similar to it. Quote: |
Originally Posted by Rob-hin I'm sure there has been much research to it, but IMO it will be a while before artificial brain actually can fly a plane. Not only researchwise, but pigs will fly before I'll let myself fly by a fake brain! I think many others feel that way. | It's actually very simple to fly a plane as long as nothing unexpected happens. The safety issues with flying makes it highly impropable that any cell cultures will replace human pilots in the foreseeable future. However, they may be other tasks that are more suitable for integrated technology-biology systems. Quote: |
Originally Posted by Xandax Yeah news can be hard to find if you aren't within that field yourself. I had to find this news on a danish "geek-news" side, and then dig up the original source from where I linked it.
I've not seen it on any other danish newssite. | That's what I like with geeks, they are interested in science Quote: |
Originally Posted by Taco Does anyone think something like whats going on with stem cell research will happen to this too? Would they really let brain cells operate machines when they wont even let stem cells save someones life?
I love your posts CE | Thanks Taco I think this line of research will be left alone as long as it stays in the lab, and later on, as long as the results are used for pure technical innovations only. If we come to point where these systems are so advanced and so reliable so they can replace human workers, I think we will see the same discussion as when manual industrial work was replaced with industry robots. I do not however believe it will raise the same problems as stem cells has done in the US, unless human embryoninc cells are used for the cultures - then it will of course be the same issue as embryonic stem cells. On the other hands, who knows what fanatic religious fundamentalists will see as against their religion or not 
What I predict as the next major ethical problem in the life sciences, is gene therapy. It is already much debated, but just like stem cells, the politicans and people in general haven't really taken stance to the latest development. Already today we can replace specific gene sequences by building a virus vector that carries the new DNA sequence, introduce the virus vector and let it replace the old gene with new DNA by utilising the virus ability to enter cells and configure their DNA. This technique is getting more and more advanced by the minute. Here is an information leaflet if anyone is interested in knowing more: http://cis.nci.nih.gov/fact/7_18.htm Quote: |
Originally Posted by giles337 I get it now! Your nick makes sense! Joy of Joys! And anyway.... i thought knowledge was your specialist subject | I wish it was but only knowledge about some specific aspects of human brain functioning is - all other knowledge in all other areas, is a constant struggle to try to keep at least vaguely familiar with...
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10-26-2004, 04:09 PM
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Thanks for the information CE, it actually makes me interessted in the material.
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