Money can't buy you happiness (spam lite)

[Vicsun]

On the table.

Discuss if you would like. I'll post my opinions tomorrow when I'm in a better state of mind and when (hopefully) there'll be some replies which I would be able to answer.

[nael]

i completely disagree- money can in fact buy happiness. if you are loaded, then you have the luxury to pursue the things that make you happy. whether that is fishing, raising a healthy family, drinking on a beach in mexico, etc.

and another thing...happiness can't buy groceries or pay the rent...

the main reason cited in divorce is money causing a rift in the couple.

a main source of my stress right now is tryign to buy a new home. if i were wealthy- that stress would be gone. another issue, i am worried to death about having to fly my dog in the cargo section of the plane this week (those of you who have read my topics on children know how i feel about this). if i were rich- i could charter a flight and it wouldn't be a problem.

another way to show money can buy happiness. sociology studies show that people who work out, eat well, and are healthier are more prone to be happy. if you are rich, you have the luxury of working out when you want to, you can buy fresh fruits and vegetables, and can buy quality meats.

so, yes, money can buy happiness...but happiness is not gauranteed to either the poor or the rich. if you're a miserable SOB, then you'll always be one no matter how much money youhave.

[IHateUsernames]

Money can buy you happines. But theres no garantee youll be happy if you have money.

If enjoying the sunset/sunrise makes you happy, money cant help you. Or the joy of breathing, wich I think we all have.

But if your happy with a big house and a good car, money will help you quite alot.

So it really depends on what kind of person you are.

Just my 2 cents.

[Zelgadis]

My opinion is, the more money you have the more options and choices you have, and that will probably make you more happy.

[Xandax]

Read this in a dilbert comic strib, wich often tells the truth:

"Money can't buy happiness - but it can buy expensive things that make people envy you, and that feels just as good"

I want money then I'll be happy
I might be more happy with other things also, but money is the foundation for happiness, when you don't have to run around worrying about financial situations, you have the time and choice to start "worrying" about what else you need to be happy.

The way society works in our part of the world, then money is the key.

[C Elegans]

Can money buy you happiness? To a certain extent up to the level of fulfillinging basic needs such as housing, food, medical care and personal safetly - yes. Above that basic survival level - no.

We have to consider several factors: basic needs, absolute wealth, relative wealth, changes in wealth and individual variance such as personality factors and motivational style/attribution style. To summarise the many psychology and sociology studies on happiness, life satisfaction and wealth:

1. Happiness is correlated to wealth at a national level, ie when you look countries with various average income and compare wealthy countries like Japan, USA and Switzerland and compare these to poor countries like China, Nigeria or Romania.

2. Happiness has a low correlation to income within nations, instead there is a cut-off where those who have a very low income (for the UK I think the cut-off was <£10000/annual income for a household) are less happy, but those who have average or high income are not happy according to how much money they have. On the contrary, some studies actually show increasing unhappiness with increasing income.

3. Economic growth in more developed countries, has not been accompanied with increasing happiness.

The above supports the idea that above a certain basic level, people don't get happier because they have more money. (But it is important to note that the correlation between rich and poor countries may not be a pure money-happiness correlation, it may also reflect other factors related to national wealth/poverty such as health factors.)

Looking at change factors, there are some studies showing that people with very low income become happier when they get a better income. Also, people get more unhappy if their income is severely decreased. However, studies of lottery winners and people who have inherited a lot of money show inconclusive effects: some people get more happy, some get less happy and other don't change.

This leads us to invidivual variation. Why are some people happier when they get more money, others become less happy, and yet others are unaffected? One reason is the individual's baseline, ie what level was s/he on before s/he got the money? Another reason is personality traits and motivational style. People who are more motivated by extrinsic factors (such as outer rewards, social status, admiration and envy from other people etc) get more happy when they get more money, that do people who are motivated by intrinsic factors (inner personal drive, personal moral, personal interest etc). Also, people who have more extrinsic motivation are less happy that people who have more intrinsic motivation. This means that if you are a person that care a lot about material wealth, you are of course more likely to become happier because you have lots of money. However, you were probably less happy to start with, compared to people with high instrinsic drive.

This is a good review article of the field:

Diener, E, Biswas-Diener R. Will Money Increase Subjective Well-Being? Social Indicators Research, 57 (2): 119-169, February 2002

I think the idea that more money than needed to fill your basic needs will make you happy, is an illusion created by media and the norms in our society. Looking at scientific data, there is no support for this idea. Many people believe luxury and wealth will make them happier, but research demonstrated it is not so.

Studies have demonstrated that people's happiness depend on physical and mental health, a sense of security and satisfaction in job life, a loving private life, a safe community, freedom and moral values. A factor called "Sense of coherence", a psychological factor including the notion that your live in a meaningful context, that things in your life makes sense and that your are a fully integreted person (ie your body, mind and social relationships are integrated) has also been demonstrated to play a crucial role for happiness. Money is not even on the list

[Xandax]

Well - I don't mind living with the illusion of being happy the more money I have (or want)

If I was financial secure (and beyond), I'd be a lot more happy then I am today while on student aid wich isn't much money

haveing the possibility to do what I wanted, when I wanted, withouth having to worry about money would be wonderfull and I'd be very happy

[IHateUsernames]

@Xandax, You're on SU?

Give this guy some money, NOW.

[Xandax]

Quote:

Originally posted by IHateUsernames @Xandax, You're on SU? Give this guy some money, NOW.

Yeah, also got studen loan ... give me some money ^ as he said

[Vicsun]

i completely disagree- money can in fact buy happiness. if you are loaded, then you have the luxury to pursue the things that make you happy. whether that is fishing, raising a healthy family, drinking on a beach in mexico, etc.
I agree to a point... money can buy you freedom to pursue happiness, but just earning more and more will not make you happier.


and another thing...happiness can't buy groceries or pay the rent...
...but if you are happy without buying groceries/paying rent what is the reason for doing so?


a main source of my stress right now is tryign to buy a new home. if i were wealthy- that stress would be gone.
Stress is IMO very much up to the person. If you are the kind of person that gets stressed buying a new home, chances are if you were wealthy you'd be stressed about something else... such as your investments/your employees (if you own a company...) etc... Here it might be argued that money would actually bring stress because when you have a lot you have a big responsibility and you have a lot to lose.
If you are relaxed by nature you won't be stressed from buying a new house or having financial difficulties. In that sense someone living in a cardboard box might be happier than the CEO of some large company...


another way to show money can buy happiness. sociology studies show that people who work out, eat well, and are healthier are more prone to be happy. if you are rich, you have the luxury of working out when you want to, you can buy fresh fruits and vegetables, and can buy quality meats.
You have a point here, but you don't really need to have excessive amounts of money to be able to work out or eat fruits and vegetables.


so, yes, money can buy happiness...but happiness is not gauranteed to either the poor or the rich. if you're a miserable SOB, then you'll always be one no matter how much money youhave.
Agreed


But if your happy with a big house and a good car, money will help you quite alot.
I disagree. I don't think a car or a big house will make you happy. You will feel the initial joy of having the new car/house for about a week, and after that you will feel that what you have is the norm, and it won't make you feel happy anymore. The only way to keep happy is if you get bigger and bigger houses and better and better cars. Constantly. That is, obviously not possible.
The way you feel is dependant on the change of social standing. If some relatively wealthy guy has financial difficulties and has to sell his BMW and buy a VW instead, he will feel a lot more miserable than the guy with a used volvo who just saved enough money to buy himself a brand new VW, even though at the end they both own the same car because one person experiences positive change and the other negative.

My opinion is, the more money you have the more options and choices you have, and that will probably make you more happy.
Not necessarily. Just getting a bigger paycheck at the end of the month does not give you freedom. It only gives you the power to purchase more goods. Which won't by themselves make you feel good.




1. Happiness is correlated to wealth at a national level, ie when you look countries with various average income and compare wealthy countries like Japan, USA and Switzerland and compare these to poor countries like China, Nigeria or Romania.
I'm not sure how that conclusion is reached... Suicide levels in Scandinavia the highest in the word, while Scandinavian countries are ones of the wealthiest in the world. There was a study several months ago showing that Norway was the country with the highest standard of living in the world IIRC.
Last time I visited Italy, if I were to judge by the way Italians walked, talked, were dressed I would say that Italians were much happier than Danes while not wealthier..



2. Happiness has a low correlation to income within nations, instead there is a cut-off where those who have a very low income (for the UK I think the cut-off was <£10000/annual income for a household) are less happy, but those who have average or high income are not happy according to how much money they have. On the contrary, some studies actually show increasing unhappiness with increasing income.
This is interesting, but I kept wondering: how do they measure and test happiness? I'm not trying to discredit what you're saying, but I'm curious

3. Economic growth in more developed countries, has not been accompanied with increasing happiness.
This actually makes quite a lot of sense to me, since economic growth usually results in change of the way people live, and change even if for the good usually upsets people...


Looking at change factors, there are some studies showing that people with very low income become happier when they get a better income. Also, people get more unhappy if their income is severely decreased.
This supports my idea that it's not the physical wealth that determines happiness but the change in wealth that would plunge you into depression or elation


To conclude, I agree with pretty much everything CE has said except for her first point (i.e. that there is a correleation between happiness and wealth on a national level), and agree with some points other memebers have. Now I'll leave you with a new question. In the glory of SYM I would have opened a new thread for the new question, but now I doubt there'll be enough responses to keep both threads alive so I'll just post here. Consider this:


Can money buy you happiness? To a certain extent up to the level of fulfillinging basic needs such as housing, food, medical care and personal safetly - yes. Above that basic survival level - no.

Basic needs such as shelter and food have been fulfilled for humans ages and ages ago. In this case is the average human today happier than he was 1000 years ago? 3000 years ago? What makes him so? While obtaining food and shelter might have been more of a problem back then you always had the satisfaction of a successful hunt, the satisfaction of finding a dry place to spend the night in, while now you don't have any big day-to-day achievements. It's rare that you go back from the office and you think to yourself "Yes, today was such a great day, I got so much done, I feel good", because, well let's face it life can be pretty monotonous. What do you think?



God, I swear, I'll never write anything this long agian. Ever.

[IHateUsernames]

Its really hard to tell. It was much simpler back then. So you really cant say.

[Xandax]

Quote:

Originally posted by Vicsun <snip> and another thing...happiness can't buy groceries or pay the rent... ...but if you are happy without buying groceries/paying rent what is the reason for doing so? <snip>

But if you are unhappy and can't afford to buy groceries, then what?
My guess is money would make you happier.

Quote:

Originally posted by Vicsun <snip> But if your happy with a big house and a good car, money will help you quite alot. I disagree. I don't think a car or a big house will make you happy. You will feel the initial joy of having the new car/house for about a week, and after that you will feel that what you have is the norm, and it won't make you feel happy anymore. The only way to keep happy is if you get bigger and bigger houses and better and better cars. Constantly. <snip>

That is simply impossible to say.
You can't argue (state) that somebody would feel "not more happy" with a big car or big hourse, and that more "craves" more.
It is especially "I don't think ...... will make you happy". That is impossible for you to say, because we are all different, and we all "tick" for various things.
Some people are happy with/at materilistic things (I know - I'm one).


I for one will be happy with money, more so then without, and I know this because I've tried both (although in relative scale).
Of couse there are other factors also, that factor into ones happiness, but if it comes down to "can money make you happy"... then for me it is a deffinate yes (all other things kept equal)

[dragon wench]

interesting question..

I don't think that money in and of itself buys happiness. If somebody is plagued by internal demons or if the person is experiencing profound grief, for example, then clearly no amount of money in the world is going to alleviate that pain.

However, if I may broaden the question somewhat, I do believe that *wealth can improve the quality of life* This is often true at both a personal level and within the larger picture.

If a nation is wealthy (and at least reasonably democratic), then the population has access to better healthcare, education, shelter and so forth. Even the most basic human needs require a modicum of wealth.
A very real example of this can be seen amongst AIDS/HIV sufferers in Africa. Those with more money (or those lucky enough to have employers with comprehensive health plans) can afford antiretroviral drugs, which can extend their lives for up to 10 years, and during that time the drugs allow them to function as productive members of society, while giving their children a chance to grow up so they are not orphaned at a very young age. Obviously, in cases such as this money makes a significant difference to the personal well-being (and, I would hazard, happiness) of individuals.

I also think that more money, or wealth, can make a difference at the personal level. My partner and I have been together for nearly 16 years. Much of that time has been spent living month-to-month on something of a shoe string budget. While money was actually one thing we never did fight about, it was certainly the case that always being under that kind of pressure helped to amplify the existing stresses of our relationship. Further, we were never able to afford much travelling. Even tramping around with just a back pack, while sleeping in tents and youth hostels, requires funds that might be needed for things like rent and groceries. More recently we have been able to breathe a little easier, and truthfully, while we have never been especially materialistic,... we are happier now than we were previously. Admittedly, other things have occurred which have increased our overall happiness, but I can truthfully say that being a bit more financially comfortable has contributed.
It is nice to have the privelage of going on holiday and not counting every penny you spend, it is enjoyable to be able to go out for dinner while not having to worry that you might be blowing the following month's heating bill....
It is very stressful to not know how you are going to pay the following month's rent... and stress *does* affect happiness.

[Beldin]

Money probably won't buy you happiness, but at least you coulf be unhappy in style .

No worries,

Beldin

[fable]

There are so many personal and cultural factors involved in the result that completely contradictory conclusions seem possible. For example, Bill Gates not only needs wealth to be happy, he has repeatedly stated that he has to be the wealthiest man in the world. He has achieved this goal. Given that he enjoys sprawling luxury, we may speculate that this has raised his happiness level.

On the other hand, a man like Andrew Carnegie, the legendary American tycoon, constantly berated his rich contemporaries for hoarding their wealth and exacerbating the division between rich and poor. He treated his vast number of employees well, and set up a host of charitable trusts and foundations that still cover everything from orphanages to the free and accurate coverage of news without commercial bias. Money, for Carnegie, clearly provided personal security and influence, which may be seen as factors contributing to his happiness, but it also furnished a level of anxiety since it generated a sense of great personal responsibility.