Massacre in Virginia: 33 students dead

[Lady Dragonfly]

It happened today...


BLACKSBURG, Va. - Thirty-three people, including the gunman, were killed on a Virginia university campus Monday in the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history. At least 26 other people were injured, some of them as they leapt to safety from the windows of a classroom building.


Federal law enforcement officials said the gunman killed himself after he shot dozens of people at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University in Blacksburg, in southwest Virginia. Thirty-two people were confirmed dead, as was the gunman.

At least 33 dead in Virginia rampage - Massacre: Virginia Tech - MSNBC.com

[Cuchulain82]

It's a scary situation, and something that has been on my mind all day. I'm a student now, and my classmates and I talked about it a little bit and tried to figure out how we felt. What would you do if someone walked into your classroom or office and started killing your colleagues? It's an awful thought, and it makes me feel very vulnerable.

[Aegis]

The cops there will be feeling the heat on this one for bit, as well. From what I understand, the initial shootings in a Coed Dorm were dismissed as domestic disturbances, with the shooter having fled. Considering that they allowed, through negligence, the gunman to relocate, and continue shooting, is going to cause a massive uproar.

Personally, I feel the officer who made the decision should lose his job for that screw up.

[TheAmazingOopah]

Yeah, really a terrible massacre this is, disgusting even. The thing that shocked me at first were of course the numbers: 33 people. 33 people. I always regarded people who do this as outcasts who are just severily pissed about their lives, who just really dislike the leading youth culture of barbies, sport jocks and Lindsay Lohan. Guys who go on a killing spree out of blind anger, and who very soon regret their actions when they see all the misery and death, resulting in their own suicide - again, being emotional. But in this case, the shooter actually came back two hours later to continue his killing spree. He kept shooting for about half an hour, and from what I've heard, it didn't end because he felt regret, but it ended only because the police stopped him. That doesn't sound like an emotinal act to me, that sounds like someone who has actually gone mental.

The second thing that hit me was the fear that these students must have felt. Teachers jumping out of windows, people screaming in pain and fear, and the repeating horrible sound of gunshots - that all for half an hour. I can only imagine the terrible cummulative fear those students most have felt that died at the end of that half hour.

Edit: Correction, the shooter didn't got shot by the police, but did commit suicide. I missed that part, my mistake, sorry.

[Moonbiter]

Just why do these things keep happening in the USA? Is it something in the water? Fable pointed out in the "Misconceptions" thread that Americans are not a violent people, yet solid proof is against that statement. The amount of people murdered in the US during the first three months of the year 2007 is staggering! I lived there for four years and the sick, gun-fixated, paranoid culture I encountered completely blew my mind. Don't hand me any arguments about different States and culture, that just won't wash with me. Right now I'm sitting here waiting for feedback from an old friend who's a professor at Virginia Tech. Her first message when moving there in 2001 was: "Jeeez, these people have shotguns in their hatstands!"

[dragon wench]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonbiter Just why do these things keep happening in the USA? Is it something in the water? Fable pointed out in the "Misconceptions" thread that Americans are not a violent people, yet solid proof is against that statement. The amount of people murdered in the US during the first three months of the year 2007 is staggering! I lived there for four years and the sick, gun-fixated, paranoid culture I encountered completely blew my mind. Don't hand me any arguments about different States and culture, that just won't wash with me. Right now I'm sitting here waiting for feedback from an old friend who's a professor at Virginia Tech. Her first message when moving there in 2001 was: "Jeeez, these people have shotguns in their hatstands!"

My SO and I were just discussing this last night.
To put things into context, we go down to the US quite a lot and we like many aspects of the country. As a whole it is more dynamic than Canada, there is often a much greater sense of energy and vitality.
So... just to make clear I am not bashing the US here.

But what we really do not understand at all is the American obsession with the right to bear arms. In its day, when it was passed, The Second Amendment served an obvious purpose. However, that was in the past. There is absolutely no need in this age for such a "right."

The US is one of the most violent nations in the world, if not the most violent. Somehow, it seems to elude people that there exists a direct correlation between easy gun purchase and extreme violence of this nature. And this in the face of the fact that the "deterrent" of the death penalty is alive and well in many states.

I'm not attempting to sound self-righteous. This is a common problem with Canadians, in my view. They love to get on their pedestals and point a sanctimonious finger down at the US.
It's simply that I find the prevailing mentality utterly baffling.

[Chanak]

*edited*

Some things are just not worth responding to.

[Moonbiter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragon wench My SO and I were just discussing this last night. To put things into context, we go down to the US quite a lot and we like many aspects of the country. As a whole it is more dynamic than Canada, there is often a much greater sense of energy and vitality. So... just to make clear I am not bashing the US here. But what we really do not understand at all is the American obsession with the right to bear arms. In its day, when it was passed, The Second Amendment served an obvious purpose. However, that was in the past. There is absolutely no need in this age for such a "right." The US is one of the most violent nations in the world, if not the most violent. Somehow, it seems to elude people that there exists a direct correlation between easy gun purchase and extreme violence of this nature. And this in the face of the fact that the "deterrent" of the death penalty is alive and well in many states. I'm not attempting to sound self-righteous. This is a common problem with Canadians, in my view. They love to get on their pedestals and point a sanctimonious finger down at the US. It's simply that I find the prevailing mentality utterly baffling.

Norway is only second to Texas in the number of guns per capita, yet we don't go ballistic like this. In my four decades on this planet, this thing has only happened twice in Europe, but in the US it seems like an annual occurence and a national passtime. Why? This has NOT got anything to do with the availability of firearms, as is proven by my statement above, this is the general mentality of an entire population.

[fable]

Moonbiter, I can understand your emotional reaction to what has happened, but your comments here are way over the line, and defame an entire nation of over 300 million people with a single exceptionally broad and nasty brush. I suggest calming down when you can, but for now, back off. Nothing is gained from these rabid accusations.

[Moonbiter]

Point taken. I will now back off, and apologies is sent to the people involved.

[k2jaggededge]

Here we go again blaming guns/video games are the real colpruts!

Its the same with the Imus situation, theirs allways a smoke screen to cover up the real problem. Politicians are just PIMPS, they exploit situations for votes this will end up in the same bag. They'll morne then they'll blame guns to get a couple of votes. Was Grand Theift Auto the reason why 2 kids shot other classmates at columbine?
How about the obivious that this guy was a nut case don't make this political, its a sad story but whats even worse is that politicans will exploit it for votes.

Also he was an immigrent so he had no right to bear arms since he wasn't a citizen yet.

Finally if we can't even stop PEOPLE from coming into this country illeaglly (Hell we can't even deport convicted fellons since we can't find them most the time)
How are we going to stop the import of guns from South America, The Middle East, and Europe

[Chanak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragon wench But what we really do not understand at all is the American obsession with the right to bear arms. In its day, when it was passed, The Second Amendment served an obvious purpose. However, that was in the past. There is absolutely no need in this age for such a "right."

To start, I'll comment that I don't own any firearms myself.

With that out of the way...the "obsession" to you is a "right" to another. Since you don't hail from a culture/society where bearing arms is a prominent feature of a citizen's rights, naturally you will have difficulty understanding it.

I don't think this sort of discussion has any place in this thread. Still, I feel compelled to respond to what you've posted here because it paints a picture with a broad brush that quite frankly distorts the entire thing based upon your own view of what's important to a society, casting aside other considerations such as the millions of Americans who own firearms that do not commit crimes, and are generally law-abiding citizens as a whole.

Quote:

The US is one of the most violent nations in the world, if not the most violent. Somehow, it seems to elude people that there exists a direct correlation between easy gun purchase and extreme violence of this nature. And this in the face of the fact that the "deterrent" of the death penalty is alive and well in many states.

Technically, the US is *not* the most violent nation in the world. Shall I draw your attention to places on other continents where living is a daily gamble to avoid being bombed or executed? Where that sort of thing happens on a daily basis...and where the police forces are the ones doing such things? I shouldn't have to name those places, so I won't. Also, the availability of guns does not necessarily correlate with higher incidences of crime...

The death penalty is another matter entirely...but then, to someone who is painting such a broad picture of the US, one might not be interested (nor care) to learn it isn't that popular to begin with. Neither is the classic incarceration model of judicial punishment.

Quote:

I'm not attempting to sound self-righteous. This is a common problem with Canadians, in my view. They love to get on their pedestals and point a sanctimonious finger down at the US. It's simply that I find the prevailing mentality utterly baffling.

What prevailing mentality are you referring to? Did you encounter this "prevailing mentality" in Seattle? Portland?

[fable]

Quote:

Here we go again blaming guns/video games are the real colpruts!

They're really not quite the same, you know, k2jaggededge. On any level. I'll leave others to this, and merely mention that various national polls by reputable polling organizations have shown in the last 5 years USian adults believe there should be stricter gun controls by a margin of anywhere between 60% and 80%.

But there does seem to be something endemically wrong in a society where certain forms of crime repeat beyond the civilized norm. Teenage suicide in Japan, school shooting (and school violence in general) in the US, school bullying in Germany, alcoholism in Russia: something is wrong. The causes can be debated, are being debated, but usually and unfortunately not by politicians. It is a sad fact that the people who can actually make the most difference are least inclined to do more than profit from buzzwords.

[Chanak]

fable raises a good point. An initiative is gaining momentum in certain areas of the US that looks at the *source* of crime - what's causing it, and how do we prevent it? Certainly, the standard model of incarceration - and even the presence of a death penalty in the case of murder and other heinuous violent crimes - does not address the problem.

A study conducted of New York city jails demonstrated that the majority of the inmate population hailed from certain neighborhoods in the city...and that these inmates were mainly repeat offenders. Obviously, the ways in which we deal with crime in this country just doesn't work. A number of researchers are looking at the neighborhoods where these inmates come from...perhaps the solution is there?

Concerning the massacre at Virginia Tech, officials from the FBI and other law enforcement agencies pointed out that unfortunately there is no "profile" of the sort of sick, deranged individual who would perpetrate such a horrific thing. That bothers me.

[Gilliatt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fable But there does seem to be something endemically wrong in a society where certain forms of crime repeat far beyond the civilized norm. Teenage suicide in Japan, school shooting in the US, bullying in Germany, alcoholism in Russia: something is wrong. The causes can be debated, are being debated, but usually and unfortunately not by politicians. It is a sad fact that the people who can actually make the most difference are least inclined to do more than profit from buzzwords.

Nice comment Fable. Sometimes the cause is just a case of proximity and of mimesis. For exemple, the guy who did the shooting at the Dawson College in Montreal was a huge "fan" of the Columbine massacre and had an access to guns. That is why he did it that way, not because of his nationality, of a Megadeth song or of his religion.

What happened at Virginia Tech is very sad and we all wish this kind of things will never happen again.