Living in a nation of Idiots!

[Moonbiter]

AGAIN!?!?!?

Gullible, do-nothing, village idiots! A whole nation of them! Just there for the picking. You have some criminals who're feeling that there's too much work to do during an actual heist? Send them here! Actually, they'll probably be sending you postcards of fjords'n stuff already, because they've been here for 10 years, and nobody has reacted to it.

The nearest police station is EXACTLY one minute away from the site, still they used over 45 minutes to get there! Why? Because it's Sunday, stoopid! Cops over here don't work on Sundays! Period. It's in their job description: "You may harrass normal citizens who're drunk, driving too fast, or looking for some action after 2 o'clock in the morning, but you may NEVER work on a Sunday. That's overtime, and we don't pay for overtime around these parts, because we assume that criminals also wants Sundays off to kick back."

I'm still too hung over to coherently react to this happening, so I'll just walk down the street and steal a couple of viking ships, because I can be certain the two cops on duty in this burg are out looking for the other guys. Call back on Monday.

[fable]

"What's strange is that in this museum, there weren't any means of protection for the paintings, no alarm bell," Castang told France Inter radio.

"The paintings were simply attached by wire to the walls," he said. "All you had to do is pull on the painting hard for the cord to break loose -- which is what I saw one of the thieves doing."

I find this pretty damn astonishing. The museum had a few works valued at several million Euros hanging on its walls, and it had no protection for 'em? How did it ever get insurance? How did it get the loan of such art, which is not provided without adequate protection being specified in the contract? (At least, this is the way it happens in the US. I know, because I've interviewed a couple of art museum curators back in the day for public radio.)

[Gwalchmai]

Its enough to make you scream....

[fable]

You know, I don't understand why I'm still in the US. I've been wanting to move for some time, but we can't afford it. Instead, we could have moved to Norway. You can go anywhere, wait for somebody to turn their back, and steal all sorts of expensive goods. It's the Morrowind of Europe.

[Morril]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fable You know, I don't understand why I'm still in the US. I've been wanting to move for some time, but we can't afford it. Instead, we could have moved to Norway. You can go anywhere, wait for somebody to turn their back, and steal all sorts of expensive goods. It's the Morrowind of Europe.

That's maybe true.
But you only got your money stealed. In USA you get killed for 10 dollars or less
In Norway even the prime minister and the king can walk in the streets, almost without protection...
Less violence, no guns in schools, no big drug-problems, no terrorist problems, good economy (oil), good livingstandard for all people.....
In fact the last 2 years Norway are voited for "best country to live in" (by WHO I think?)

[fable]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morril That's maybe true. But you only got your money stealed. In USA you get killed for 10 dollars or less In Norway even the prime minister and the king can walk in the streets, almost without protection... Less violence, no guns in schools, no big drug-problems, no terrorist problems, good economy (oil), good livingstandard for all people..... In fact the last 2 years Norway are voited for "best country to live in" (by WHO I think?)

Great. We finally have a single thread on this board that dumps on some nation other than the US, and somebody has to turn it into a dump-on-the-US session. What's the matter, the idea of having problems for once get to be so much that you have to redirect the blame? Sheesh.

[Morril]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fable Great. We finally have a single thread on this board that dumps on some nation other than the US, and somebody has to turn it into a dump-on-the-US session. What's the matter, the idea of having problems for once get to be so much that you have to redirect the blame to the eternal enemy?

Hehe - sorry about that
But no problem - we can easy find another country. Fx my own country Denmark, France or Germany.... take your pick

[fable]

No, I think we'll just focus on this thread, and and the problems Norway is having with its inability to take care of art. You want to praise your country indiscriminately, do it somewhere else.

Sorry if this offends anybody who hasn't posted here yet, but if you've all read SYM before, you know the US catches a ton of flack, nearly all of it justified, for a range of decisions made by the idiots who lead us (and the idiots who allow them to do so). I'm sure every nation, including Norway, has plenty of its own problems, and I'd rather not see this thread become a Norwegian flagwaver. (Which was also not the purpose of the person who started this thread.)

[Morril]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fable No, I think we'll just focus on this thread, and and the problems Norway is having with its inability to take care of art.

Ok. I agree Norway has a problem there. But one reason (that I have heard) why Norway protect the art so bad, is priority. If you protect something heavily (fx with armed police), then the thiefs will be prepared for that and respond to it (fx more heavily armed - just in case). This can end in gunfight and possible killing. If you protect more light (or as here, don't protect ) then there is a good possibility that the thiefs won't be armed (or only light armed) and therefore more little risk of anybody harmed or killed (actually no people was killed or injured here). Priority - peoples life is more important than art (also if it is very expensive).
The problem in Norway with bad protection is not only about art. Also banks and money-transports are poorly protected - by the same reasons.
Of course people can agree or disagree with these reasons, but personal I think they have a good point there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fable You want to praise your country indiscriminately, do it somewhere else.

I am sorry if you think I only want to "flagwave Norway" - I didn't attend to. I only wanted to point that Norway (and USA) is much more than what's in the news By the way - i come from Denmark, not Norway.

[fable]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morril Ok. I agree Norway has a problem there. But one reason (that I have heard) why Norway protect the art so bad, is priority. If you protect something heavily (fx with armed police), then the thiefs will be prepared for that and respond to it (fx also have guns). This can end in gunfight and possible killing. If you protect more light (or as here, don't protect ) then there is a good possibility that the thiefs won't be armed and therefore more little risk of anybody harmed or killed.

With respect, that makes no sense whatsoever. If I were a thief confronted with a nation that protects its valuables with hardly any weapons at all, I wouldn't think--

"Wow, guess I'll have to even the score and drop down to my scivies and perhaps a hunting knife!"

I'd think--

"Wow! Nothing to stop my Kalazhnikov! I probably should get the gang to do a series of raids as quickly as possible, so we capitalize on this before they get any common sense...!"

...And according to the Deutsche Welle broadcast I just heard, the people who stole the paintings were heavily armed. Which figures.

I am sorry if you think I only want to "flagwave Norway" - I didn't attend to. I only wanted to point that Norway (and USA) is much more than what's in the news By the way - i come from Denmark, not Norway.

You probably figured it was safe to dump on the US because many people here didn't, having not read SYM, before. No problem, but you might consider checking out a few day's threads the next time you try to start tossing around blame for things. Playing the anti-US card is just done so much, here, that it's refreshing to see someone attacking something else. I still feel like I'm living in a nation of lunatics, but at least now I feel like the world is populated by bunches of discrete lunatics, each with their own insanity. It's good to be alive.

And we haven't even started on the wonderful way those environmentally concerned Norwegians treat their coastal whale population. But that's meat for another thread, I suppose.

And we can also take on the Danes.

[Morril]

Ok. I don't want to make a big discussion of it. It may be considered off-topic. But maybe it can be a theme for another thread. I only want to comment it short.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fable With respect, that makes no sense whatsoever.

That's one opinion. But I think it make sense:
if you know the art is protected by men without arms, you can think ok I take "only" handguns; but if you know it is protected by men with mascineguns then I take mascineguns (or something more heavy) with me. It is a fact that when thiefs are robbing a bank or money-transport, people is more liked to be killed if the guards are armed. The thiefs are prepared for gunfight - and that's what often happened.
In the Norwegian news they tells that the thiefs only had light handguns (which figures). And no gunfight - no people hurt or killed. Had the guards were heavy armed - who can tell how many people (also guards) who were killed?

Quote:

Originally Posted by fable You probably figured it was safe to dump on the US because many people here didn't, having not read SYM, before. Playing the anti-US card is just done so much, here, that it's refreshing to see someone attacking something else. I still feel like I'm living in a nation of lunatics, but at least now I feel like the world is populated by bunches of discrete lunatics, each with their own insanity. It's good to be alive.

Of course you are allowed to have your opinion about my motives. But I think this attack is unfair and if true I don't understand why you react so aggresive. I agree when you say "the anti-US card is done too much". But I don't agree when you say that it is refreshing to atttack someone else. Why most we "attack" other countries (or USA) - we all know that all countries are different and have their problems. Again my main point is: all country have their problems, but the problems are more complex than told in a short story on the news.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fable And we haven't even started on the wonderful way those environmentally concerned Norwegians treat their coastal whale population. And we can also take on the Danes.

No country is perfect. Norway and Denmark have their big problems too.
But one thing USA, Norway and Denmark have in common is the right to speak their oppinions. I hope it is also true for me - even if I disagree with you?

[fable]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morril if you know the art is protected by men without arms, you can think ok I take "only" handguns; but if you know it is protected by men with mascineguns then I take mascineguns (or something more heavy) with me. It is a fact that when thiefs are robbing a bank or money-transport, people is more liked to be killed if the guards are armed. The thiefs are prepared for gunfight - and that's what often happened. In the Norwegian news they tells that the thiefs only had light handguns (which figures). And no gunfight - no people hurt or killed. Had the guards were heavy armed - who can tell how many people (also guards) who were killed?

The reason no one was killed was because there were no guards present. If guards had been there, some people might have been killed, as the guards would have defended the paintings. Hostages might have been held to ensure the safety of the fleeing thieves. Grenades might have been thrown. Who can say? Typically, thieves don't pull daring robberies when galleries are open, unless the works on display are unprotected. They do their work normally while galleries are closed--and there's an argument to consider: that heavily armed guards might deter any burglary except when no one is around to challenge the thieves. Being heavily armed might actually have a result opposite to that which you foresee. Possibly.

Look at this, too, from another perspective: you put your most important valuables in a vault in a large metropolitan bank. Would you rather have that bank guarded by someone with a billy club, or people who can deal with a heavily armed assault? And I don't reply that insurance will cover the losses. No bank that is protected by people without arms is going to be insured.

Of course you are allowed to have your opinion about my motives. But I think this attack is unfair and if true I don't understand why you react so aggresive. I agree when you say "the anti-US card is done too much". But I don't agree when you say that it is refreshing to atttack someone else.

You've said it yourself: because here, the anti-US card is played all the time. And I can't defend the US, because its position is untenable. (In fact, I've led the hordes several times attacking many US environmental, governmental, economic, religious, and "defense" policies.) But I jump with joy, my lungs (such as they are) fill with a refined mixture of oxygen, nitrogen and various unpleasant polycarbons, and my heart leaps with a thrill when I observe recognition in my fellow SYMers that some other cultures have their own problems, too. It's just good to see that people really are looking at problems, and not simply reacting with knee-jerk anti-Americanism. Since knee-jerk anything serves no purpose.

No country is perfect. Norway and Denmark have their big problems too.
But one thing USA, Norway and Denmark have in common is the right to speak their oppinions. I hope it is also true for me - even if I disagree with you?

Only if you'll admit that Valdemar Atterdag was unreasonably impugned by your nation's historians, and that Rued Langgaard was a great composer. Otherwise, you have to sit quietly and sip aquavit. Sorry.

[Scayde]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fable Great. We finally have a single thread on this board that dumps on some nation other than the US, and somebody has to turn it into a dump-on-the-US session. What's the matter, the idea of having problems for once get to be so much that you have to redirect the blame? Sheesh.

I can't tell you how many times I have wanted to say that

I am outraged..I cried when I read the news.

To think that something this precious to the art community at large would not have been better protected..this piece has been stolen once before..we were so very fortunate that it was retrieved..did the caretakers of such a treasure learn NOTHING ?!?!?!

[Xandax]

Actually - the "security concern" is used in many aspects of our society. (Denmark, Scandinavia).
We have had very few violent bank robberies, assaults on money-transports and similar, and it is general consensus from the polices intelligences service and similar, that if we start to put armed guards in banks, or as ride along on transport that the assaults/attacks would get increasingly violent as well.
We have little, but now increasing, violence in our society, and thus this strategy has been working for a long time.
It is very rare that somebody gets hurt in any of the robberies on either bank or transport, and I can't even recall any hostage situation.
It is (has been) as Moril says - a question of priorities from the legislators and the police.
However, these days there is a little more focus on bank robberies and similar, so who knows ... it could change in a couple of years.


However - to get back on topic.
As far as I understood, there could have been some additional security measures taken in the Norwegian museum, because the paintings were hanging without security bars or similar. This would have been a small and easy, and non-violent, way to delay the thieves.

But also - we have to remember, that for cases such as Munk’s painting, there are very few options to do with it, and it seems most likely that the thieves will try and black-mail the museum. And naturally they will get their money, but I would guess they also get caught relative quickly.
The "fear" would be that it is some out-side collector that has order the theft, worst of all - say a Russian mafia boss or something.
Then it will find is way to a vault, and nobody will see it for many years.

[Scayde]

Actually @ Xan:..My biggest present fear is that the piece will be badly damaged in inappropriate hands...the painting is basically ink and tempra on plain paper...it is very fragile and would be destroyed by so many things...it is not as if they can roll it up like a canvass for transport.