Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of a Seamless Suntan

[dragon wench]

Teen nudity exposes town's bare-bone rules

BRATTLEBORO, Vermont (AP) -- Public nudity isn't new to this bastion of bohemia, but it usually bares itself in more subtle places than the downtown parking lot.

This summer, a group of teenagers has disrobed near restaurants, bookstores and the town's many galleries, igniting a debate about whether Brattleboro should ban a practice long tolerated until now.

"Brattleboro tends to be a laid-back town and pretty accepting of the unusual, but this is really pushing limits," said Police Chief John Martin. "It's clearly to outrage people, it's clearly rebelliousness."

By most accounts, the stripping started on a whim in early summer when a young woman sat naked on a park bench, Martin said. Then another woman started taking her shirt off downtown.

A music festival promoting nudity and rebelliousness set up in May in a downtown parking lot attracted nude hula hoopers.

Last month, a half dozen young people bared their bodies in a parking lot, encircled by the backs of bookstores, coffee shops and restaurants.

"It's just an act of freedom," said 19-year-old Adhi Palar. "We're just doing so because we can."

Palar said he and the others "do not consider nakedness to be innately sexual or rude and it shouldn't be confined to that."

All the bare skin has raised eyebrows, even in this town of 12,000 residents that has seen clothing-optional swimming holes, streakers and an event known as "Breast Fest," which featured women parading topless.

"To most people, it's not a big deal," said Catherine Kauffman, 57, who calls Brattleboro "a don't-take-away-too-many-of-my-rights kind of town."

At Everyone's Books, co-owner Rich Geidel, 50, said the parking lot may not be the most appropriate place for nudity, but "as long as people are polite, don't block the entrance, we don't ask them to leave."

To others, it's disturbing and something more than harmless rebellion.

"It's a bad image for Brattleboro," said Ozzie Kocaoglu, 43, who owns the Sundried Tomato restaurant at the far end of the parking lot, which has long been a teen hangout.

Vermont has no state laws against public nudity, but communities can write their own bans. At least eight cities and towns have anti-nudity ordinances, according to the Vermont League of Cities and Towns.

So far, Brattleboro has chosen not to join them, but the teenagers' disrobing may change that. Officials in the southeast Vermont town, about 80 miles west of Boston, are researching how other communities have responded.

Nudity has been used for social protest and rebelliousness for years. This summer, nude bicyclists rode through Burlington to protest the country's reliance on oil, part of an event known as the World Naked Bike Ride. PETA, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, has often used nudity as a shock tactic to draw attention to the treatment of animals in research and fashion.

The 50,000-member American Association for Nude Recreation espouses nude recreation in appropriate places, but doesn't use nudity "for social commentary, or rebelliousness or an act of civil disobedience," said Mary Jane Kolassa.

In Vermont, voters have shot down nudity bans before. Prompted by complaints about nudity and sexual activity at a swimming hole, the Wilmington select board passed an anti-nudity ordinance in 2002. But supporters of the freedom to skinny dip rejected the ban in a public vote.

"There were some ugly moments in the debate with some name calling and lots of good healthy debate about reasonable rights and responsibility under those rights," said Wilmington Town Clerk Susie Haughwout. Officials weren't sure how they would have enforced a ban and to what extent, she said.

For now Brattleboro is weighing its options, and waiting for summer to turn to fall.

"As soon as winter comes, there won't be a story anymore," said Town Clerk Annette Cappy.

I think I know where I want to move!

[Magrus]

Bah, to be perfectly honest, I am more likely to be turned on by a girl where suggestive clothing than a naked girl. Nudity in and of itself really has nothing to do with anything sexual. I don't see a problem with that, in and of itself. However, there are definately people that I would not want to see nude, in any circumstances. I know I don't run around nude, not just for the sake that is against the law here, but for common decency towards other people.

[dragon wench]

Originally Posted by Magrus

I am more likely to be turned on by a girl where suggestive clothing than a naked girl. Nudity in and of itself really has nothing to do with anything sexual. I don't see a problem with that, in and of itself.

Yes, and I think that is much of the entire point nudity advocates try to make. Just like there is nothing sexual about women breast feeding their infants in public. The problem, in part, is that because of its Puritan heritage North America is prude in the extreme, and therefore the continent has highly unnatural views on nudity and sexuality.

However, there are definately people that I would not want to see nude, in any circumstances. I know I don't run around nude, not just for the sake that is against the law here, but for common decency towards other people.

I think this relates to a particular set of standards on what defines beauty or attractiveness. I do find the issue to be a thorny one. I fully admit that I wouldn't want to see somebody who is extremely obese walking around in the buff, I'm a product of my society in that respect, and it's something I wrestle with. In other regards, I am of the view that beauty is defined by the interior, but when it comes to individuals who are grossly overweight....it's really hard for me to overcome my bias.

[Chimaera182]

This is a lil creepy-ish. I was in northern Florida this weekend, and last night at some bar, my friends, a couple of people they knew, and myself were all talking about this. It must be nice to be able to get away with being nude in public, but there is something always to consider: some people should be pretty damned considerate if they look nasty to keep clothed. It may sound bad, but I sure wouldn't strut around in the buck in my current form. But then you get some liberal idget going about town naked and being 80-something and looking like Fat Bastard grossing everybody out, and then justifying it by saying it's not banned. Some people just don't have common decency.

[Magrus]

@ Chim, Yeah. There is a "No Shirt, No Shoes, No service" policy in stores, around here at least. I do not know about elsewhere. There is this man, who is overweight, loud, and drunk everytime he came in this summer to get beer. He had a button up floral print shirt and shorts on, with the shirt unbuttoned and his gut hanging out. His wife, who wasn't in good form herself, strutted around in a bikini. I remember looking, shuddering, looking away, and having them walk past me as I worked and shuddering again. One of the teenage girls working the register looked like she was going to sick up as he walked past while he winked and grinned at her. I was just about to rush over and tell them to go home and put some clothes on that actually cover them before coming into the store when the drunken idiot staggered up to my boss and they babbled on for an hour about beer. I was so not happy with all three of them after that.

The example is not nudity, but umm, how to put this. It is almost like art, if I see a pretty woman, I can appreciate her for being pretty simply as the appreciation of beauty in and of itself. Just like if I see a painting or sculpture I find to be visually pleasing. I would not want someone's 3 year old to paint the walls of every public place I go to. It would be a jarring, horrid sight after the initial 20 second "aww, look what he/she did!" thing wore off. I don't want to see someone who is visually unpleasant strutting around nude. Just as I don't want to see what I would produce as a painting put up in an art museum. It would be crap and not worth showing the public, and I know it.

[Vicsun]

Originally Posted by Magrus

I don't want to see someone who is visually unpleasant strutting around nude.

Hey, as far as I'm concerned I don't want to see visually unpleasant people at all. Ugly people offend my extremely delicate sensibilities, clothing or no clothing.

Needless to say, I, myself, am a thing of beauty.

[dragon wench]

Originally Posted by Vicsun

Hey, as far as I'm concerned I don't want to see visually unpleasant people at all. Ugly people offend my extremely delicate sensibilities, clothing or no clothing.

Needless to say, I, myself, am a thing of beauty.

"Thing?"
*imagines Vicsun as the very perfection of earthworm form*

[Denethorn]

Originally Posted by dragon wench

I am of the view that beauty is defined by the interior, but when it comes to individuals who are grossly overweight....it's really hard for me to overcome my bias.

For me, part of my revulsion to extremely overweight people is their utter disregard for their own health. Unless they have a disorder or condition, I cannot fathom a reason how someone could get up every day and not think "I really, really need to do something about my weight".

Overweight children are the worst. How their parents can let them get so fat is beyond me. They should be taxed, for every pound overweight per week their child is. That would get them feeding and exercising their children properly.

Nudity doesn't bother me. And I agree with Mag that plain view nudity does not arouse me at all. Nudity doesn't have to be sexual I enjoy it greatly when I can strut about naked, and moreso when I can sneak down the to the beach at night on holiday, and run naked through the wind and sand and into the sea. Embrace the power of nature in your natural form . And shake your nearly empty bottle of rum at the sea, gargling like a naked, moronic pirate.

I suspect my enjoyment of personal nudity is the rather restrained culture I live in regarding public nudity.

[Vicsun]

Originally Posted by dragon wench

"Thing?"
*imagines Vicsun as the very perfection of earthworm form*

A thing of beauty is a joy forever.




edit: and that has profound implications for earthworms.

[Magrus]

Originally Posted by Vicsun

Hey, as far as I'm concerned I don't want to see visually unpleasant people at all.

Hmm, if we're going down this route, can I get a wish to veto stupid peoples rights to know how to breathe along with the banning of uggo's in public?

[Dottie]

I don't think people should have the right to be protected from things they find ugly. Other humans aren't there as decorations imo. So nudity from others shouldn't be a problem.

Yeah, I know Vicsun already said it, but he is always rude and sarcastic so I thought I should repeat it.

@Dragon Wench: It sounds to me as you are mixing to very different things. You find some people attractive and others not so, no bias there imo. A bias would be if you let it influence unrelated issues, like job interviews, or your assessment of other personal traits.

[Patrick]

I would use restraint where I am and why, because I hve raised and self educated to think that clothing is proper and I always had this intense fear of water and being naked in front of people. I am less restrictive now but the local parameters don't fit my profile for public nudity. So I think I'll move:}