Kashmir India and Pakistan

[CM]

1. I am just asking what are the views of the symers on this part of the world, and the recent almost at war tension like scenerio.

2. Dont ask me to explain the issue, as I am baised and can not be objective.

3. If you want me to explain the pakistani pov then i do so, but I think an India - is there one here - should also post their version.

[Tamerlane]

Quote:

Originally posted by CM 1. I am just asking what are the views of the symers on this part of the world, and the recent almost at war tension like scenerio.

Well I'm pretty much petrified of the whole situation. I always considered myself lucky that I wouldn't never see a nuclear warhead detonated in a populated area, but now I'm not so sure.

[Mr Sleep]

Woah.

Looks like i will have to issue a warning before start (not to you CM )

Could everyone please keep this civil. I don't want to close down a possibly interesting thread.

[CM]

Yeah it is scary and what is worse, is that they might actually come to. Heaven Forbid. But if either Pakistan or India uses nukes, their respective nations and people will also be affected.
Even if Pakistan nukes the border area with Bruma, Pakistan will feel the nuclear fallout. And same with India attacking our border with Iran.

Also are their any Indians here?

[Dottie]

I unfortunatly dont know that much about the situation in Kashmir or how its viewed by the involved nations. But I think that there is very little danger that any of them use nuclear weapons. That option just dont seem sensible even from a completly nationalistic and patriotic point of view.

Needless to say a "conventional" war is a disaster as well, but on a quite different scale.

[Maharlika]

Quote:

Originally posted by CM Yeah it is scary and what is worse, is that they might actually come to. Heaven Forbid. But if either Pakistan or India uses nukes, their respective nations and people will also be affected. Even if Pakistan nukes the border area with Bruma, Pakistan will feel the nuclear fallout. And same with India attacking our border with Iran. Also are their any Indians here?

... as for my thoughts on the use of nukes, I personally think that it is REALLY STUPID for both countries to nuke each other, like, throwing garbage and dung at your neighbor and yet you yourself get affected by the smell and the disease that would go along with it.

Of course, using nuke in itself is something that is never worth it. Somehow in the final analysis, the nukers themselves are nuking their own people.

BTW, I wont be surprised if Osama's goons are behind the recent violence at Kashmir... talk about revenge and tactical diversion...

[Tamerlane]

Quote:

Originally posted by Dottie I unfortunatly dont know that much about the situation in Kashmir or how its viewed by the involved nations. But I think that there is very little danger that any of them use nuclear weapons. That option just dont seem sensible even from a completly nationalistic and patriotic point of view. Needless to say a "conventional" war is a disaster as well, but on a quite different scale.

Well the reason I think a nuclear war may be possible is because (and no offence to CM or Thorin). India has a defence force capable of confidently capturing Pakistan, I'm more worried about what the Pakistani generals are capable of doing if pushed to the very edge.

[Maharlika]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tamerlane India has a defence force capable of confidently capturing Pakistan,

... a DEFENSE force capable of CONFIDENTLY CAPTURING Pakistan? Are they really that good?

No, Tammy, no sarcasm there. I simply want to know that I understood what you said.

[Tamerlane]

Quote:

Originally posted by Maharlika ... a DEFENSE force capable of CONFIDENTLY CAPTURING Pakistan? Are they really that good? No, Tammy, no sarcasm there. I simply want to know that I understood what you said.

I don't think I stated it right, but the Indians are confident of their capabilities. And the majority of defense analyst in Australia covering the situation, think the same way.

I doubt a border exchange would remain just that, if the situation continues...

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

There was an analysis over here of the two countries forces, and India had a far larger military force than Pakistan. It also has a larger population, of course, but Pakistan has very few offensive/defensive forces in comparison.

I'm sorry I can't quote specifics, but I don't remember the exact numbers.

Good move @Sleep, warning everyone to keep a level head in a potentially volatile subject such as this, and good topic @Fas.

Does anyone informed, ie. Fable or CE, have a link to a reasonably objective history of the Kashmir dispute?

[Mr Sleep]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ode to a Grasshopper There was an analysis over here of the two countries forces, and India had a far larger military force than Pakistan. It also has a larger population, of course, but Pakistan has very few offensive/defensive forces in comparison.

I also read about this last week in The Times, they quoted a vast figure, plus the article stated that they have better firearms and superior training.

[Maharlika]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ode to a Grasshopper Does anyone informed, ie. Fable or CE, have a link to a reasonably objective history of the Kashmir dispute?

... correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember that India and Pakistan used to be one big country colonized by the British. When the British left, the country was divided into (Muslim?) Pakistan and (Hindu?) Indian. The Kashmir area was vaguely(?) shared by both religious groups prior to the separation and both sides claim the area as historically theirs.

As I said, please correct me on this one if I'm wrong.

[Maharlika]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ode to a Grasshopper There was an analysis over here of the two countries forces, and India had a far larger military force than Pakistan. It also has a larger population, of course, but Pakistan has very few offensive/defensive forces in comparison.

...since next to China, India is the second largest country in terms of population.

[CM]

India has a far larger army than Pakistan. I do believe somewhere around 3 to 4 times larger. However according to the economist (this weeks edition, with the mind cover) it says that the Pakistan army is better trained and would match india equally if the war was confined to Kashmir and the LOC only. The telegraph and the think tank it quotes said that India would get a "bloody nose" if it attacked kashmir and would have to retreat.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...303716,00.html

http://www.dailytelegraph.co.uk/news...equestid=17583

However if the war is longer than a month, India will win. They have resources for a full fledged war for 6 months. Pakistan has enough for 1 month.

India and Pakistan along with Bangladesh were one counrty. But they spilt to form 2 countries India and Pakistan. Later in 1971 Bangaldesh spilt from Pakistan. Kashmir originally back in 1947 was 90 plus % muslim. Today i believe the Indian govt figure is 80 or a little less.

[HighLordDave]

I think that the situation in Kashmir is similar to the middle east in that both sides have basically forgotten why they hate each other; it's all about vengeance and righting every wrong someone committed in the past. Something like 30,000 people have died in sporadic border disputes over the years and there's basically no end in sight.

What worries me is that 1) after all the years, neither side is willing to come to the negotiating table and seriously consider compromising and 2) the two sides do not have enough nuclear weapons for mutually assured destruction.

I don't think there's any doubt that in a prolonged campaign, India will win through the force of sheer numbers. The question is: If backed into a corner, will the Pakistanis use their nuclear arsenel against India, and what would India's response be?