Jagtvej 69: Copenhagen Burning

[Vicsun]

You might have caught this on CNN, but I'd like to provide some further detail.

About fifteen minutes away from my campus there's a run-down, graffiti covered building. It looks like this and is called Ungdomshuset, or The Youth House. It's been a socialist center since 1897, which is when it was constructed and functioned as a resort for the labor movement. It was the movement's lack of popularity with the authorities that necessitated the construction of the building which was used as its headquarters. At the time it was called Folkets Hus - The People's House in English - and among other things it facilitated the 1918 demonstrations in which workers stormed Børsen - the danish stock exchange. Second International, a socialist movement, used the building for an International Women's conference in 1910 to declare the 8th of March as International Women's Day. Of further historical significance is the fact that Vladimir Lenin and Rosa Luxemburg have both held speeches there.

Fast forwarding to the '50s, Brugsen, a supermarket chain, decide to buy Folkhuset, tear it down, and use the space for building a supermarket. The municipality promptly tells they can't do that because of the building's historical significance so they sell it to some folk music ensemble who in turn sell it to the municipality for financial reasons in the late 1970s. At the same time, the danish government sees a lot of confrontations between squatters, rioters and police officers so in '82 the building is assigned to a group of youths to alleviate tensions. From then on it's known as Ungdomshuset and is used as a concert venue and home to all things alternative.

In 1997 a contract is signed between Ungdomshuset and the municipality requiring the municipality to provide funds for upkeep and obliging them to find a replacement of a bigger or equal size in the same area should the youths be, at any point, required to vacate. The catch is that the moment they are doing anything illegal the deal is off.

The funds for upkeep were never received, the building wasn't brought up to code and the building is subsequently ravaged by a fire. In 1999, after the fire, the municipality decides to sell the building with a memo justifying the sale by claiming illegal activities took place inside. The police debunks the accusation stating that they have no evidence of any sort of illegal activities taking place. Faderhuset, a Christian fundamentalist right-wing "we-hate-gays-muslims-and-blacks" religious sect, bids an unknown amount of money but are rejected as they are not considered serious buyers. The Jagtvej 69 foundation bids 2.4 million DKK (~450,000 USD) but are outbid by 100,000 kroner by Human A/S. For some reason, the Jagtvej 69 foundation don't get to re-bid and Ungdomshuset is sold to Human A/S, which turns out to be a front for Faderhuset who buy Human A/S and thus end up owning the house.

After six years of court battles follow, the Jagtvej 69 foundation offers to buy it back for 15 million kroner (~$2.6 million) but Faderhuset rejects, instead announcing their plan to tear the building down turn it into a parking lot. The municipality looks for a new building for the youths, and they end up offering a school for the handicapped which the youths would have to share for the low price of 12 million kroner. The youths offer a symbolic 1 kroner, intending to use the foundation's money for upkeep (remember, by the way, that the municipality is still technically obliged to both pay for the upkeep and provide a new building). The municipality rejects. The youths offer to to pay the 12 million, but have the municipality pay for upkeep (this happened last wednesday). The municipality rejects again and withdraws its offer. From then on protests follow, and a few of them turn into riots. Since pictures drive the point home better than words, here are some pictures. All of them are from the past week unless I wrote otherwise.

Riotpolice around the building
Helicopter troops descend on top of the building
Rioter running from the police
Police truck circling around various fires (Dec 2006)
German Autonomen dressed in riot gear. The sign says 'Ungdomshuset Stays" (Dec. 2006)
Defaced car (Dec. 2006)
Couple watching a fire (Dec. 2006)
Arrested youth tries to escape
Police trying to apprehend rioter
Police trucks getting past barricades
Rioters
Riot police
Police brutality?
Helicopter hovering above the building
Rioters turning over some vehicle
Police arresting someone
Drunken hippie who probably supports Ungdomshuset.

I hope someone finds this interesting.

[Dottie]

Thanks Vicsun. I did only catch the riots on the news, and was just in the process of wondering about the background.

[fable]

It's barely made the news, over here. Of course, it's being presented in most locations as anarchists and hooligans benefiting from lax laws in a permissive society.

[Vicsun]

Originally Posted by fable

It's barely made the news, over here. Of course, it's being presented in most locations as anarchists and hooligans benefiting from lax laws in a permissive society.

Incidentally, it's presented the same way here.

An interesting factoid about the riots is how incredibly ritualized they are. The police limit themselves to tear-gas and batons, and the rioters don't use anything deadlier than cobblestones. During the seventies, the police used water cannons and rubber bullets while the rioters used slingshots and large slabs of concrete they liked to drop from great heights. It's odd and my secret hope is that one day policemen and rioters will just sit over tea and talk.

[Xandax]

Originally Posted by Vicsun

<snip> and the rioters don't use anything deadlier than cobblestones. <snip>

Well, that and molotow cocktails and lighting fires in the middle of the city which quickly could spread to nearby houses.
It is a miracle that nobody got seriously hurt, unlike last time.

These people also trashed a school burning books and destroying computers for 500.000 DKK .... a school? Which have absolutly nothing to do with the situation.
And they have destroyed and vandalized several other peoples property and businesses over more then one night, and one period of time. Again people who were innocents in this "conflict.

I have absolutly no respect nor sympathy for these people who cause these riots nor their backers. They are only interested in the violence for the sake of violence. They are fundamentalistic people who have no tolerance for anybody else, while claiming they are being "targeted" because they are a "sub" culture.
When it was learned that it was religious people who'd bought the house, kids affiliated with or supporters of this house performed vandalisme towards the religious groups property elsewhere in the town, claiming they were religious "fanatics". Fun how one fanatic group can call others fanatics without ever looking in the mirror first.

I find it "funny" how these people want things for free from a society they so hard try to claim to be "outside" and when they do not get it, they go out on a violent and destructive rampage.
Sorry, that doesn't swing in any democratic society and such blackmail must never succeed, save it will be used as a tool every time. And luckily now it seems it will not succeed either.
We have the law, and every instance of court have stated that the rightful and legal owners of that house is the ones who bought it. Simple.

Enough is enough, and I hope the people arrested will be smacked hard with the law, very hard. Putting others life in danger because of a house they do not legally own.... no. Enough.

My sympathy goes to the police which must stand in front of these vandals and pillagers, and us the taxpayers who'll have to pay for these kids upkeep.
The foundation for Jagvej 69 should in my opinion pay for the damages and ressources used for the police.

[Tricky]

So what's Darth Vader doing there in the middle?
->
ImageShack - Hosting :: ungdomshus175253ihs8.jpg

[Vicsun]

Originally Posted by Xandax

Well, that and molotow cocktails and lighting fires in the middle of the city which quickly could spread to nearby houses.
It is a miracle that nobody got seriously hurt, unlike last time.

The fires are created to prevent police vans from moving freely and the fact that nobody's gotten seriously hurt makes me think Molotov cocktails aren't widely used. At any rate, the riots are much less violent than their counterparts in other parts of the world.

Don't get me wrong, I feel no sympathy for the rioters - partly because what they're doing is counter-productive to keeping Ungdomshuset standing - and I'm sure they're limiting their arsenal because of fear the police would escalate the violence accordingly and not because of some innate goodness. I was just pointing out something I considered an oddity.

That said, the municipality carries a fair-share of the blame. Since it's their job to keep the streets from falling into anarchy, theirs is also the blame when there's a crowd of disenfranchised punks vandalizing a school. Had they done everything within their power to prevent the riots I would have felt differently but their sheer incompetence in handling the matter leaves me with little sympathy. Also worth pointing out is that the KUC (Copenhagen Youth Centers, the group that had to pay for Ungdomshuset's expenses under the 1997 contract) was busted for massive fraud in 2000.

I do however salute you for not making the tenuous analogy of "they got a free house so why can't I get a free car".

The foundation for Jagvej 69 should in my opinion pay for the damages and ressources used for the police.

I would only agree with this if they had sanctioned the riots and called for violence which they haven't done. Not everyone using Ungdomshuset is out burning cars. Why does everyone forget about the youths who met the police with coffee, Citronmåner (Citronmåner are to Danish policemen as donuts are to their American counterparts) and toy guns?

Originally Posted by Tricky

So what's Darth Vader doing there in the middle?
->
ImageShack - Hosting :: ungdomshus175253ihs8.jpg

Fighting to protect the Danish way of life

[Moonbiter]

CNN.com Video

These people, the rioters, are scumbags of the first order. Highly organized dissidents with reinforcements coming in from all over Europe and Scandinavia. Every major city in Europe has a couple of these rathole houses, and in Scandinavia the politicians have been showing a mindnumbing clumsyness in dealing with them since the late 70s. Hence the "poor little protesters who're being repressed by The Man" have gotten media sympaty all around. Not so this time. After these turds attacked the firefighters and ambulance crews Friday night, not a single person with a normally developed brain will support them.

Oh, and on Wednesday they were offered a $2 million replacement property by the municipality, only to turn it down because "they didn't want a rich uncle to buy them a house." Yes, this is the kind of mental athletes we're dealing with...

[Vicsun]

Originally Posted by Moonbiter

CNN.com Video

These people, the rioters, are scumbags of the first order. Highly organized dissidents with reinforcements coming in from all over Europe and Scandinavia. Every major city in Europe has a couple of these rathole houses, and in Scandinavia the politicians have been showing a mindnumbing clumsyness in dealing with them since the late 70s. Hence the "poor little protesters who're being repressed by The Man" have gotten media sympaty all around. Not so this time. After these turds attacked the firefighters and ambulance crews Friday night, not a single person with a normally developed brain will support them.

While it's hard not to judge the rioters harshly, I can't help but be annoyed by the lack of distinction between Ungdomshuset's user base, the Jagtvej 69 foundation and the rioters. As you illustrate below:

Oh, and on Wednesday they were offered a $2 million replacement property by the municipality, only to turn it down because "they didn't want a rich uncle to buy them a house." Yes, this is the kind of mental athletes we're dealing with...

While I'm sure saying something this stupid isn't above a random rioter, you should keep in mind the Jagtvej 69 foundation, which handles millions of Danish kroner, is most likely not staffed by the same hormone-filled teenagers that are out on the streets fighting the police. Keeping that in mind, how likely do you think it is they would reject property offered for the reason you gave?

Furthermore, if you (re)read my original post you might find that I've addressed the point you made along with giving a reason for the rejection.

[Lady Dragonfly]

Xandax:

The foundation for Jagvej 69 should in my opinion pay for the damages and ressources used for the police.

Vicsun:

While it's hard not to judge the rioters harshly, I can't help but be annoyed by the lack of distinction between Ungdomshuset's user base, the Jagtvej 69 foundation and the rioters.

...the Jagtvej 69 foundation, which handles millions of Danish kroner, is most likely not staffed by the same hormone-filled teenagers that are out on the streets fighting the police.

I am probably having a brain infarct because I did not catch the connection between the youths and Jagtvej 69. Is this Jag 69 somehow backing the rioters? Why should they pay for any damages?

Besides, is 'Ungdomshuset' only the building's name or the name of the youth's organisation as well? What is the 'Ungdomshuset's user base'?

And what do the rioters actually want? The ruined house for 12 millions?

Can you guys explain all this, please?

[galraen]

So yet again the state uses violence against it's citizens, then complain when the citizens use violence in retaliation, typical!

I'm afraid this is just another example of western, so called 'democracies' slipping further and further to the extreme right.

[Xandax]

Originally Posted by Vicsun

The fires are created to prevent police vans from moving freely and the fact that nobody's gotten seriously hurt makes me think Molotov cocktails aren't widely used. At any rate, the riots are much less violent than their counterparts in other parts of the world.
<snip>

Yes, less violent, but that is hardly any type of benchmark to go by.

Originally Posted by Vicsun

That said, the municipality carries a fair-share of the blame. Since it's their job to keep the streets from falling into anarchy, theirs is also the blame when there's a crowd of disenfranchised punks vandalizing a school. Had they done everything within their power to prevent the riots I would have felt differently but their sheer incompetence in handling the matter leaves me with little sympathy. Also worth pointing out is that the KUC (Copenhagen Youth Centers, the group that had to pay for Ungdomshuset's expenses under the 1997 contract) was busted for massive fraud in 2000.
<snip>

Nobody, absolutly nobody, other then the rioters carry blame of any kind for this. Nobody.
Nobody is forcing these people to go out in arms destroying other peoples property and putting peoples life in danger.

One can think that Copenhagen as a political entity did not "do enough", but there were absolutly no willingness to compromise from these "Jagtvej 69" people. They were not inclined to move their position an inch despite being offered a new property they could buy, instead of using the money to buy Jagtvej 69. They refused as you mention in your first post, and said they'd only pay 1kr.

When unable to find a compromise the blame falls on both parties for said compromise. But this does not give any type of carte blanche to go out and perform vandalism and riots of this manner. Not in a democratic country. Not in this country.

The blame for destruction of property falls solely upon the ones destroying it. Otherwise we are getting over into the stupid analogies of "well, they didn't protect it so it was okay for me to ruin it"-type of statements.

They want something for free. They couldn't get it so they riot.

Originally Posted by Vicsun

<snip>
I would only agree with this if they had sanctioned the riots and called for violence which they haven't done. Not everyone using Ungdomshuset is out burning cars. Why does everyone forget about the youths who met the police with coffee, Citronmåner (Citronmåner are to Danish policemen as donuts are to their American counterparts) and toy guns?
<snip>

The reason I think that is because these money are tied to the "aid" of these kids. However by actions performed in the name of these, and from within the house, I think responsibility does in fact fall upon Jagtvej 69 and that crowd.

And no - I know not everybody is burning cars who used the house, but there is no sort of cutting off the ones who did. Even the peaceful protesters state something along the line that "We do not appreciate violence, but...." There should be no "but". Allowing these people to wreak havoc in their name is to me the exact same as supporting them directly.
Also we shouldn't forget that there have been plenty of incitements to riot coming out from the house itself and they fortified themselves and only because of the superior tactics of the police did they get thrown out of the house without problems.
And yet nobody seemed to want to distance themselves from the people who cause vandalism to a school ?

These are spoiled kids who use the fact they belong to another "sub culture" then mainstream to be incredible intolerant and violent. They want something for free, they couldn't have it, they caused riots.
They alone carry all blame for the riots. Imagine how far this could go if everybody started acting like these kids/people?

Originally Posted by galraen

So yet again the state uses violence against it's citizens, then complain when the citizens use violence in retaliation, typical!

I'm afraid this is just another example of western, so called 'democracies' slipping further and further to the extreme right.

Please don't make half-assed comments like this. The situation is serious enough to begin with and this thread should not derail into some sort of mudslinging without foundation in reality.

[Vicsun]

Originally Posted by Lady Dragonfly

I am probably having a brain infarct because I did not catch the connection between the youths and Jagtvej 69. Is this Jag 69 somehow backing the rioters? Why should they pay for any damages?

Besides, is 'Ungdomshuset' only the building's name or the name of the youth's organisation as well? What is the 'Ungdomshuset's user base'?

And what do the rioters actually want? The ruined house for 12 millions?

Can you guys explain all this, please?

Ungdomshuset is currently primarily used as a venue for concerts and such. The Jagtvej 69 foundation is the foundation in charge of Ungomshuset's finances. Any benefactor would have to go through the foundation and the foundation decides where the money gets spent. The user-base are teenagers using the concert venue and the rioters are partly a (relatively small) subset of the user-base and partly people who are not in any way connected to Ungdomshuset and just want to use the opportunity to throw cobblestones at the police.

edit: Oh, and Jagtvej 69 is just the address of the building in case the title of my thread was confusing.

Originally Posted by galrawn

So yet again the state uses violence against it's citizens, then complain when the citizens use violence in retaliation, typical!

I'm afraid this is just another example of western, so called 'democracies' slipping further and further to the extreme right.

Well, the police have been pretty good at minimizing the violence they use (as I pointed out, no rubber bullets or water cannons), and once a riot gets underway I have a hard time thinking of a completely violence-free way to break it up. Out of all the blame I'm giving out, I'm not actually directing any towards the police.

They did storm a few buildings arresting a few people without warrants - some of the arrestees included lawyers who had taken it up on themselves to inform the parents of the arrested rioters and inform them of their rights - but warrantless arrests are a-okay according to Danish law, so long as a warrant is obtained in 24 hours after the arrest is made, and the arrested lawyers should have been released within a few hours (the police were claiming their arrests were a mix-up).

Xandax, I'll reply to your post later today since I need to be heading out to school. I just heard on the radio that there were bulldozers lined up. If I have time, and something interesting is happening, I'll try to snap a few pictures.

edit: they're tearing it down as I type this. TV2 is interviewing some neighbor who lived next to them for seven years, and he seems less than happy they're tearing down a historical landmark.

[Xandax]

Yes, they are tearing down the house indeed.
What consequences this'll have for the rioters is unpredictable at best.
Best case scenario is it might put a damper on the willingness to cause havoc and destruction when the physical "symbol" is gone, however I doubt it to be honest, and would think the people seeking violence and vandalism will just use this as foundation for continued violence and vandalism.

[galraen]

Vicsun, it wasn't the police I was referring to so much as the establishment taking a heavy handed approach to evict a group whos politics they disagree with. Sending in the cops to evict the kids and bulldoze the site is, in my opinion, an act of violence.


Xandax, You're the one doing the mudslinging, not me. If you can't handle people disagreeing with you, or stating views you can't tolerate,I suggest you stay out of political threads.