Is intelligence overrated?

[C Elegans]

I had this discussion a couple of days ago, with a friend who is a clinical shrink...and we both agreed that "intelligence" in the general sense in Western society (ie being smart, bright, exceptional learning capacity and processing speek, being good at logical-analytical stuff and other things that Western culture ususally associates with the concept "intelligence"), is highly overrated in usefulness.

Most people like to think of themselves as "intelligent". Very few people like to think of themselves as average or below average in intelligence. But has high intelligence become something of a "status symbol", like high consumption, lacking in real usefulness and real contribution to quality of life?

As I mentioned in another post, there are population studies showing that high g-factor (the current consensus measurement of "intelligence" in cogntive science, IQ is totally outdated) has protective properties against depression and post-traumatic stress disorder...but this is a relatively new finding and I doubt whether these results are the cause of Western culture's fixation with "intelligence".

Intelligence does not generally make people happier, does not make people successful, healthy or rich...does not make people better in any respect, really. So why is it viewed as so important when in reality other factors have much more impact on the life quality of an individual? Thoughts?

[fable]

I think you're right, @CE: intelligence is a status symbol. The evidence for this lies in all the superficial pop IQ tests that continue to spring up like weeds and have for years. Having a high IQ is considered a badge of some merit, although there's no agreement on any way to quantify intelligence, and certainly none on a method of testing it.

I suspect, too, that IQ is more valued in Europe than in the US. Over here, intelligence has always been suspect as somehow undemocratic and even subversive. I would like to see polls that examine how various parts of Europe and the US relate to the word "intelligence," and to the concept of an IQ.

[Nightmare]

From a flip side of view, among teenagers (like myself), why are all the really smart ones always the ones that are made fun of, and usually the ones that are "uncool" in the eyes of everyone else?

[Bloodstalker]

I think a lot of people view intelligence as a crutch to make themselves in their own mind better than the next person in some way. No one wants to be average in any way, not just in intelligence. It's the same when you are talking about looks, sports, etc.... everyone wants to feel like they are the best thing going.

I was never sold on a lot of what people base intelligence on anyway. Seems to me, at least locally anyway, that a lot of people equate being intelligent with having a degree, or having a vast base of knowledge that they got from extensive reading. I know a lot of people who have went through college and look down on certain other people who never finished high school because they aren't up to their personal measurement of what high intelligence should be. To me, that's a flawed assumption. I know a lot of college kids who could sit down and learn a lot from listening to some of the older people who may not have finished high school, but put the basic knowledge that they did have to use and in the process built businesses in some instances, raised families, and made a difference in their community.

Am I against college? No, I went myself. But I see no reason to believe that anything I learned there makes me smarter than anyone who didn't, I just spent a few years studying a subject that interested me while they spent that time pursuing their own interests and life.

I don't think intelligence should be measured by the amount that you learn, or by how much natural ability you might have in certain areas, I think a much more accurate measureing stick is how well you can apply what information you have learned and make it work best for you.

[Enchantress]

That was well put, BS and I agree with much of what you say.

Generally, I think people who view themselves as overly intelligent or more intelligent than others can often be very boring individuals.

Also, intellectual intelligence does not always equate with emotional intelligence or sometimes even with common sense.

[Minerva]

I'd rather be acknowledged as being wise than intelligent myself.

[Enchantress]

I'd rather be peaceful and content than intelligent or wise.

Too much intelligence could make someone unhappy with life.

[Rob-hin]

I'd say intelligence is very important.
It is for me at least. Not to be better then someone else in any way, but to be happy with myself.
I try to do the best I can every time.

Unfortunately, from the world population... I'd say 85% are complete idiots who let someone else do their thinking.
I always feel people should think rationaly and think for themselves.

I'm glad to say that I rate the people here at SYM much higher then I rate the rest of the world.

[HighLordDave]

Quote:

Originally posted by Nightmare why are all the really smart ones always the ones that are made fun of, and usually the ones that are "uncool" in the eyes of everyone else?

Our society values athletic prowess and physical attractiveness more than academic achievements or intellectual acumen, so the geeky people get piled on along with the fat kids and everyone else who doesn't fit in or look the part.

I also think the middle of the road kids want to get their shots in early because they know they'll end up working for geeks throughout the rest of their lives.

[Maharlika]

Well said, Sensei. I think it's how you make it with your life given whatever you have available for you.

@CE: Hmmm... I think with Gardner's concept of Multiple (forms) of Intelligence, I think everyone is intelligent somehow

[C Elegans]

Quote:

Originally posted by fable Having a high IQ is considered a badge of some merit, although there's no agreement on any way to quantify intelligence, and certainly none on a method of testing it. I suspect, too, that IQ is more valued in Europe than in the US. Over here, intelligence has always been suspect as somehow undemocratic and even subversive. I would like to see polls that examine how various parts of Europe and the US relate to the word "intelligence," and to the concept of an IQ.

It's an interesting question how this came to be? I wonder if there is a connection with the general work-and-productivity paradigm, and the image of the "ideal worker"? That image has changed a lot in Western society during the last 30 years, and it might add to the idea of intelligence as a status symbol, as something to strive for.

I have not seen any studies or polls of the subject, by I suspect you are right in this judging from indirect measurements of cultural values in Europe and the US. In Western society there also a strong connection between "intelligent" and "intellectual", which reflects the idea that education, knowledge and interest for abstract, theoretical and logic-analytical stuff is somehow connected to, and even part of the popular definition of, "intelligence". This is more prominent in Southern Europe I think.

Quote:

Originally posted by Bloodstalker I think a lot of people view intelligence as a crutch to make themselves in their own mind better than the next person in some way. No one wants to be average in any way, not just in intelligence. It's the same when you are talking about looks, sports, etc.... everyone wants to feel like they are the best thing going.

This also taps the increasing individualisation of Western society, everybody wants to be "special", differ from the rest in noticable ways.

Quote:

I don't think intelligence should be measured by the amount that you learn, or by how much natural ability you might have in certain areas, I think a much more accurate measureing stick is how well you can apply what information you have learned and make it work best for you.

In the old days when the classical IQ-measurement was used to assess intelligence, intelligence was more or less equal to education level, which in turn reflects socioeconomic background variables. From the old IQ-tests, predictive measurements could be derived, and they reflected "school aptitude", ie they wre supposed to measure whether a person was suitable for higher education and not. However, academic skills are mostly learned, so it still taps characteristics like how much knowledge you have collected and much you have trained reading and maths skills.

The modern consensus measurement, G-factor, is different. Whereas of course you still to a large degree measure learned skills, you also measure talent, ie innate abilities people were born with that they also had the opportunity to develop. It is better that the IQ-measurement inasmuch as it has some useful correlates, (ie predictions of how well patients with certain disorders will cope on their own after inpatient care, or serving as a protective factor against certain psychiatric conditions), but it is still nowhere near a meaningful definition. Cogntive neuroscience is one of the most active and productive areas in all of neuroscience, but there is still a very long way to go to understand the mechanisms and features of what an individual actually does with information.

[Littiz]

Intelligence is the ability to understand, that is, IMHO: capacity to build a mental, abstract model to represent a concept of any kind, and to place accordingly all the possible sub-concepts in the right position of the model.
The more the capability to build correct models, the more the intelligence.
(correct means they really explain the "behaviour" of the concept -even when put in a wider scheme- and that can actually
reveal/predict not evident, concealed or simply future aspects of the concept)

I'de be inclined to think that one who has such a capability could apply it equally anywhere, but this is in contrast with evidence...
There are many kinds of intelligence: technical intelligence, social intelligence, visual intelligence...
Or maybe it's just a matter of attitudes and preferences in applying it.
For example, visual intelligence would be the capability to "understand" figures, so that you recognize the inherent, basic frames and shapes as to be additionally able, maybe, to redraw the figure itself: without many details but with the
basic lines and frames which allow others to catch the meaning of the drawing.
Or even the ability to understand the "structure" of the details, if you're up to reproduce them too.
I, for one, completely lack this kind of intelligence. I'm fascinated by images, by all things that can hit the eye, but I can't really understand their "nature", at least not without studying them heavily.

I don't think intelligence it's overrated, I do think that intelligence itself is not that much "understood", though.
Is there actually a common, standardized definition for intelligence?

[C Elegans]

Interesting post, Littiz, and you tap an important question in cognitiv science:

Quote:

Originally posted by Littiz I'de be inclined to think that one who has such a capability could apply it equally anywhere, but this is in contrast with evidence... There are many kinds of intelligence: technical intelligence, social intelligence, visual intelligence... Or maybe it's just a matter of attitudes and preferences in applying it.

Whereas man's cogntive functions has been demostrated to consist of many independant systems, there is also some common, maybe strategic, maybe conceptual, integration. Neither separate systems nor global integration is understood, but studies show that whereas one individual can have very poor visual skills and very good verbal skills for instance, the same individuals who have cogntive deficits in one area or are extremely talented in one are, are so also in other global areas. So, whereas there seems to be no correlation of the cogntive systems, there seems to be some correlation of the global functioning of these system. For instance, people who have high math skills also have high verbal & language skills and high musical skills...it might have to do with general systems that are involved in many different cognitive functions such as modulation of attention, working memory storage space and/or processing speed...or something else. Really, not much is known.

Quote:

I don't think intelligence it's overrated, I do think that intelligence itself is not that much "understood", though. Is there actually a common, standardized definition for intelligence?

Right, and no, there is no common, standardised definition for intelligence...in science we use the term "cognitive functions", but that is only partly overlapping what is normally meant by "intelligence".

[Littiz]

uhm, you make me think that much depends also on the "learning algorithm" used by each individual brain, then (assuming such a thing can be defined). I borrow this concept from the studies on artificial neural networks. Such networks don't pretend to perfectly understand and reproduce the human brain, they only use some basic concepts with the only aim of... working!

This is a cool approach, 'cause after the initial impostation of the problem, research and refinements follow naturally, and the impression is that the more they work, the more they're likely to have come closer, somehow, to the real brain's mechanism. So you can study them in reverse, if you want (but this is only my hope, maybe).

Neural Networks are just fascinating!
Probably you know the matter better than me, @CE, but...
The basic concept is to build a network of elementary cells, each of them computes the inputs from other linked cells.
Some of the cells give values that are considered as "outputs".
The point is that the links have weights that can be adjusted, and such adjustments constitute indeed the "learning".
So, different kinds of algorithms are used to adjust these weights (in a self-adaptive manner), and some prove to be better for certain applications, and work worse elsewhere.

Maybe similarly, different persons' brains use different "algorithms" to learn

[Craig]

Quote:

Originally posted by Minerva I'd rather be acknowledged as being wise than intelligent myself.

"I smart person learns from there mistakes; A wise one learns from others mistakes"