If Hitler was on the 20 dollar bill

[Magrus]

I have a cd with a song on it that is about the reaction of some people who sympathize with the Native American's here and how they feel when they see a $20 bill. The song is called $20 Bill and is by a band called Corporate Avenger. Frankly, their music isn't all that good, but I like the themes of the lyrics to the songs, even if they aren't very well written.

The point to this? The chorus to the song:

"If Hitler was on the 20 dollar bill,
How would the Jews feel?
Trail of tears.... "

Andrew Jackson, the president who ordered the Indian Removal act in America quite some time ago, is on the $20 bill. Which would be the reference to the Trail of Tears above.

I'm not sure if there are any people of Native American descent on the board, or if there are people of the Jewish faith either. However, I feel the song makes a good point. If I had to see on the currency I handled daily someone who had went out of his/her way to attempt to kill off my ancestors, how would I feel? So, I'm curious, how would you feel?

[Chimaera182]

I'm part Irish; everyone's tried to kill my ancestors at one time or another. Damn you, George Washington!

[C Elegans]

Originally Posted by Magrus

Andrew Jackson, the president who ordered the Indian Removal act in America quite some time ago, is on the $20 bill. Which would be the reference to the Trail of Tears above.

I'm not sure if there are any people of Native American descent on the board, or if there are people of the Jewish faith either. However, I feel the song makes a good point. If I had to see on the currency I handled daily someone who had went out of his/her way to attempt to kill off my ancestors, how would I feel? So, I'm curious, how would you feel?

I am neither of Native American nor Jewish descent, but I certainly think there is no difference. Genocide is genocide no matter what group of people is the victim, and genocide of Jews are not more horrible than genocide on any other group of people. The concept of Hitler stands as a symbol of unthinkable evil for many people in Western society because it happened here, right among us, at our home streets to people who were like you and me. It is again the "proximity principle" of human thinking: what is more like me and closer to me, feels more important.

I don't think that a person who represents such a discriminative and inhumane ideology should be honoured officially by having his portrait on the bill, but I know it is in all imperialistic cultures to honour those who slaughtered others.

[Lestat]

Originally Posted by Chimaera182

I'm part Irish; everyone's tried to kill my ancestors at one time or another. Damn you, George Washington!

And wasn't he a slave holder too?

[Chimaera182]

Originally Posted by Lestat

And wasn't he a slave holder too?

Him and Thomas Jefferson. But Americans like to make our "heroes" as heroic as possible; they could never err. Washington and Jefferson are the paragons of good and right. So what if the actual history gets rewritten and turned into a fantastical story of good men triumphing over an evil monarch? We did the same thing to Thanksgiving; it's a common misconeption that Thanksgiving really has anything to do with the colonists having a nice, comforting meal with the natives. What the colonists did instead was to give them germ-infested blankets, pay them scraps for huge tracts of land, and gather them up and relocate them all over America. Hitler and the Nazis gave the Jews and other "undesirables" germ-infested hellholes to live in, paid them nothing for the shops or belongings which they usurped, and gathered them up and relocated them all over Europe.

[penguin_king]

meh... i'm british. i'm not affected by nazis nor amercan currency.. you can keep your austrian dollars

[Magrus]

Originally Posted by Chimaera182

I'm part Irish; everyone's tried to kill my ancestors at one time or another. Damn you, George Washington!

That explains our famed insanity and aggression, dontcha think?

By the way, I always found it amusing that Georgie grew marijuana, and now our government is doing their utmost to keep it illegal.

Originally Posted by penguin_king

meh... i'm british. i'm not affected by nazis nor amercan currency.. you can keep your austrian dollars

Do the British not teach in school any longer the whole situation they were in during the early 19th century? WOW. YOU might not be, that you can see anyhow, but really....the Nazi's did a number on your country a ways back.

Originally Posted by C Elegans

I am neither of Native American nor Jewish descent, but I certainly think there is no difference. Genocide is genocide no matter what group of people is the victim, and genocide of Jews are not more horrible than genocide on any other group of people. The concept of Hitler stands as a symbol of unthinkable evil for many people in Western society because it happened here, right among us, at our home streets to people who were like you and me. It is again the "proximity principle" of human thinking: what is more like me and closer to me, feels more important.

I don't think that a person who represents such a discriminative and inhumane ideology should be honoured officially by having his portrait on the bill, but I know it is in all imperialistic cultures to honour those who slaughtered others.

*nods* Exactly my thoughts on the matter. I find it disturbing to hold in my hand money that has faces printed on it which happened to have been slave holders and murderers during their lifetimes, most especially the portrait of Andrew Jackson.

[Denethorn]

meh... i'm british. i'm not affected by nazis nor amercan currency.. you can keep your austrian dollars

Actually we British have something far more shameful on our notes or 'bills'. The man who invented the steam engine, and was therefore the conduit for the great evil that is industrialisation and global warming

[Magrus]

Originally Posted by Denethorn

Actually we British have something far more shameful on our notes or 'bills'. The man who invented the steam engine, and was therefore the conduit for the great evil that is industrialisation and global warming

If Bill Gates ends up on my currency in my lifetime...I'm gonna riot.

[dragon wench]

@Mag,
I agree... Andrew Jackson was a racist thug, as were those working for him, such as Lewis Cass who in 1830 described native people as "a distinct variety of the human race."

Jackson himself during a presidential message delivered in the same year, stated:

"What good man would prefer a country covered with forests and ranged by a few thousand savages to our extensive Republic, studded with cities, towns, and prosperous farms, embellished with all the improvements which art can devise or industry execute, occupied by more than 12, 000, 000 happy people, and filled with all the blessings of liberty, civilisation, and religion?"

And a congressman close to Jackson asked: "What is history but the obituary of nations?"

I imagine Jackson and his cronies would have found much in common with Hitler, all the same ingredients are there: Expansionism, arrogant racism and genocide.

Source: Race and Manifest Destiny, Reginald Horsman, 1981

@PK, you need to read some history....
Many in Britain quietly, and not so quietly, supported Hitler...from the Royal Family and on down...

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by dragon wench

Many in Britain quietly, and not so quietly, supported Hitler...from the Royal Family and on down...

The lesser of two evils...Nazism or Communism.
Hitler always wanted to be allied to Britain over the USSR and the majority of people here didn't want a war after WW1...so there you have a policy of appeasement.

Why do they have Jackson on the American currency then? There's only a limited number of 'heroic' people they can choose and they select him?
Unless someone in charge of currency printing is implying that forcing Native Americans into reservations is a good thing, there is probably another reason.
I suppose I'll look up some information on the man.

Hmm. I found this on him...

The greatest popular hero of his time, a man of action, and an expansionist, Jackson was associated with the movement toward increased popular participation in government. He was regarded by many as the symbol of the democratic feelings of the time, and later generations were to speak of Jacksonian democracy. Although in broadest terms this movement often attacked citadels of privilege or monopoly and sought to broaden opportunities in many areas of life, there has been much dispute among historians over its essential social nature. At one time it was characterized as being rooted in the democratic nature of the frontier. Later historians pointed to the workers of the eastern cities as the defining element in the Jacksonian political coalition. More recently the older interpretations have been challenged by those seeing the age as one that primarily offered new opportunities to the middle class—an era of liberal capitalism. Jackson had appeal for the farmer, for the artisan, and for the small-business ower; he was viewed with suspicion and fear by people of established position, who considered him a dangerous upstart.

[Lestat]

Originally Posted by Ravager

Why do they have Jackson on the American currency then? There's only a limited number of 'heroic' people they can choose and they select him?

Well you can forget about the heroic people and put people like Adolphe Sax and Pieter Paul Rubens on your notes (both figured on Belgian banknotes).

[Ravager]

Yeah, you can always put pictures of important people on currency...I was just wondering why they would choose Jackson over anyone else.

[Magrus]

Originally Posted by Ravager

Yeah, you can always put pictures of important people on currency...I was just wondering why they would choose Jackson over anyone else.

Americans hide all of the bad things and promote what they find good in times that bad things happened. Especially the government. Did you notice that in the description you posted they mentioned him being an expansionist, but not once mentioned that he sent a whole culture of men, women and children to its death on a forced march by American soldiers by way of plague, starvation and brutality?

I recall being lectured in school about denouncing American heroes. I went off about the fact Columbus wasn't all that great, he was a brutal screw-up. My teacher thought I was deranged to say that about the "American who founded the country". Brainwashing anyone?

[dj_venom]

We used to have an alcoholic and depressed poet on our $10 note. Henry Lawson, he wrote a few poems, and not much more, but for some reason he was on there. What was really weird, was that he was on, and A.B. Paterson wasn't, even though the latter has been more successful and is still remembered. Oh well, it's been changed now.