I don't believe my eyes!!

[fable]

The whole thing felt like a pretty obvious troll. Assuming a player is homosexual, why should they need to have an all-male party? The two conditions are not continguous. Many homosexuals are perfectly happy among both sexes (and some prefer to be surrounded by the opposite sex). My brother-in-law, on the other hand--red-blooded Irish sexist that he is--while strongly hetereosexual, would have preferred an all-male group simply because he thinks women are a second and frequently inferior species.

It seemed to me that if the topic's creator had been sincere, he/she would have been harranguing for a same-sex relationship, rather than an all-male party. In short, it felt to me like an attempt to stir up trouble--which it did, particularly when one jerk brought in DP's name.

[vixen]

I think its a shame that people abuse the views of others and the right to express them freely.

[Weasel]

Quote:

Originally posted by vixen: <STRONG>I think its a shame that people abuse the views of others and the right to express them freely.</STRONG>

I agree...but it does happen. Certain topics bring out the worst in people.

[Nightmare]

Buck, I think you where right in closing that topic.

[scully1]

The post put up as a reaction to Lee's was extremely frightening. Thanks to Buck for dealing with it so swiftly.

However (I'm going to get into trouble here, I just know I am...), regarding parents reading the forums with their children (of unknown ages): parents should monitor things BEFORE the kids see them. Forum monitors are not psychic and they can only deal with such topics after they've been posted. Parents should realize this and be more careful in the first place, rather than blindly opening up whatever forum/thread. It's a little late to shut the door when the horse is already out of the barn (fond of that cliche today...).

Just MHO...I welcome correction from any parents out there.

[ 05-13-2001: Message edited by: loner72 ]

[C Elegans]

@Wave: done. Good it was removed so quickly.

@all: I may be very naive since I live in a country where the current discussion regarding homosexuality is whether or not adoption of children should be allowed or not. Registered partnership, which is equal to marriage in terms of the law, has been available for gay people for many years.

I realise this subject might be more controversial here at GB than in Western Europe. But I disapprove of the solution that the people who are targets for other peoples prejudiced opinions are the ones who get silenced.

@Fable: I don't agree with you that we can presume the original posting was not sincere.

[fable]

The topic of same-sex "marriages" in online games came up when I was DMing in one of those massively multiplayer whohaa's a year or two ago. We'd had different sex marriages, before, quite a few of 'em, in fact. They could "pay" using realm currency for a DM-arranged wedding (in which they had a large hand at determining the extra items), or find a local "priest" to do a wedding, or simply announce themselves as wedded--oddly enough, almost exactly corrolating to the Common Law position that was prevalent in most of Europe until the late Middle Ages.

The same-sex stuff arrived late in the day, and threw us a bit, but we ultimately decided to go ahead and treat it like any other marriage: same rules for ceremonies, same rules against interolopers bent on disturbing things. We didn't get many requests. The whole issue in any case is pretty strange--I mean, how can anyone be certain about the sex of somebody on line? There's no substitute for reallife. IMO, people who seek warmth and companionship from a computer game's characters are in serious need of counseling. I'm not suggesting they are misfits; but modern societies lack the community-based safety nets that used to attempt to give a sense of belonging and social worth to individuals. Computer games are no substitute.

@C Elegans: "I don't agree with you that we can presume the original posting was not sincere."

I'm not suggesting that you can, or should, conclude that, C Elegans. That's my conclusion, drawn from my own personal experiences in dealing with trolls and as a moderator. It looks very apparent to me. To others, that obviously isn't apparent. There's no way of knowing who is right, and the question is moot at this point.

[ 05-13-2001: Message edited by: fable ]

[C Elegans]

@Buck Satan:

I will try to put myself in your shoes for a moment. I understand you want to please everybody, and this is of course impossible. Maybe it was better for the majority of the users that you closed the thread. I understand you hate to ban members and close threads. Banning people for expressing their views is of course discrimination of those who are prejudiced towards others.

BUT, MPO is this: If a member posts insulting or discriminating opinions about others, that member should be warned, just like I've seen you and the other moderators do several times. If that member continues to post offensive material, posts or part of posts should be deleted and the member warned again or, depending on degree, banned. I think each individual should take responsibility for following the rules in a context (in this case GB) where he/she by free will has choosen to participate. If the member cannot/does not want to refrain from insulting others, I would prefer banning that member/s before closing threads because a topic is controversial to a minority of people who both are prejudiced and absolutely *must* insult the targets for their prejudice.

Buck, think like this: 40 years ago, if there had been a post about a black man wanting to romance Jaheria, he would have probably have received some insulting replies because interracial marriages were controversial among some groups then. Do you think it would have been right to close down that thread because racists complained and flamed him?
Apart from my own opinions, I have a suggestion: state more clearly why you close the topic down. As it stands now, it's a bit vague, who is going to be insulted and why? It could be interpreted like you wish to protect homophobic users from being insulted or angry by having to read a post about gay romances, and I presume that is not what you are referring to.

[ThorinOakensfield]

Quote:

Originally posted by Darkpoet: <STRONG> I wonder why my name got posted in there. The little b@stard. </STRONG>

Nick_**** i mean Nick_Dude posted that.


On a serious note: I am kind of against homosexuality. I believe it is wrong, but I'm not like one of those people who hate a homosexual or am prejudice, but I just think its naturally wrong.

[ 05-13-2001: Message edited by: ThorinOakensfield ]

[cheesemage]

I think he knew that

[C Elegans]

Quote:

Originally posted by ThorinOakensfield: <STRONG>On a serious note: I am kind of against homosexuality. I believe it is wrong, but I'm not like one of those people who hate a homosexual or am prejudice, but I just think its naturally wrong. </STRONG>

This kind of statement, I have no problem at all with. You are entiteled to your opinion, I don't agree, but agreeing is not the point.
Personally, I see no discrimination, no insult and no disrespect in the way you expressed yourself above. (Of course I can't speak for everybody, I'm not even gay myself, but this is my personal reaction.)
If everybody could keep it at this level, there would be much less problems.

[cheesemage]

lets just be glad it didnt get worse, i am not gay butpeople are thats their choice and doesnt affect me

[fable]

One quick note: I don't envy Buck in such a situation. It's a tough call, and no matter what he does, he catches flack for it. I do think we might cut him some slack, given the imponderables involved.

[Flagg]

Of course this once again happens when I am not online. Let me quickly say a couple of things.

1. Buck made exactly the right decision. I know that it is a hard one, but I would have closed the topic as well. The thread would only have resulted in flames. The closing of that topic does in no way reflect the way that the people at GameBanshee think or feel about gay or lesbian people.

2. @Fable, It is at time hard to decide whether a post is serious or not. However as a member/moderator/administrator you have to give the poster the benefit of the doubt. Especially in these cases you can only assume that the post is serious.

3. I wonder how long it will be till games such as BG2 will open itself up to the gay-community. It is a simple fact of life that a certain percentage of the population is gay. TV shows are increasingly accepting this: Friends, Ellen, etc. I hope that it is just a matter of time till game designers also take this into account.

[Anatres]

I missed it entirely. May have been interesting.

My attitude is that I don't embrace the concept of 'diversity' as the healthy evolution of society or civilization. I also believe that discrimination is a cultural tool for narrow minded zealots.

'Free speech' carries a huge burden. Few realize this. But then again that's why there are slander and libel laws (at least here in the US). Unfortunately one cannot exercise one's right to seek redress in the court over what is posted on the internet. Enter Buck, Flagg, Deacon and the other Administrators and Moderators. They are the final arbitors of the content of this forum. Their actions (closing/deleteing threads and banning posters) need to be fully supported by all of us. Lest this forum for discussion, debate, fun and community dissapears entirely.