| | | | 
12-30-2002, 09:21 PM
|  | Exalted Member | | Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: in a box with great big windows
Posts: 68
| |  Quote: Originally posted by Azmodan
why is there a difference?!.... all middle-easterns are not terrorists, and all terrorists are not middle-eastern.
| @Azmodan
I think you meant to say "not all middle-easterners are terrorists and not all terrorists are middle eastern." 
__________________
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."
- Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)
| | |
12-31-2002, 06:36 AM
|  | Exalted Member | | Join Date: May 2002 Location: would you belive me if I said; Doriath?
Posts: 722
| |
yup!.... 
this is why i normally never discuss politics in english, cuz my spelling are so bad!
__________________
* Dail u-... chyn ... U-danno i failad a thi; an uben tannatha le failad.*
* Stupid ring, Stupid quest, Stupid fellowship *
| | |
12-31-2002, 06:39 AM
|  | Exalted Member | | Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: FL
Posts: 1,351
| |
__________________ Dungeon Crawl Inc. Bruoght to you by GB's own Kayless
"This is between us and the chickens, ma'am, and im going to ask
real nicely that you stay out of it" -Child of Baal
| | |
12-31-2002, 07:14 AM
| | Exalted Member | | Join Date: May 2002 Location: would you belive me if I said; Doriath?
Posts: 722
| |
thats it!...... blame the lack of coffee and sleep!
__________________
* Dail u-... chyn ... U-danno i failad a thi; an uben tannatha le failad.*
* Stupid ring, Stupid quest, Stupid fellowship *
| | |
12-31-2002, 08:11 AM
|  | Elf Ninja of Argyle | | Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: New York
Posts: 632
| |
Originally posted by Azmodan:
"and the US is intiteld to paranoid... but the profiling is kinda scary, i would like to say that i lived in a world where i wouldent be put in jail for looking like a perhaps-terrorist, and on somebodys gut-instinct."
Just a small point - these students were detained because they violated conditions of their student visas. I don't see where profiling came into play at all. If they followed the rules they would not have spent any time in jail.
Hey - following the rules - now theres an interesting concept
__________________
Check out Mirrors Online a premier NWN2 roleplaying persistent world and D20 campaign world publishing project.
| | |
12-31-2002, 08:35 AM
|  | Super Moderator | | Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: The sun, the moon, and the stars.
Posts: 30,707
| | Quote: Originally posted by smass
Just a small point - these students were detained because they violated conditions of their student visas. I don't see where profiling came into play at all. If they followed the rules they would not have spent any time in jail. | It's not stated in that piece, but racial profiling has occured at a federal level. Directly after 9/11, both the FBI and the INS started requesting that college administrators provide the names of all registered MidEastern students. To date, more than 200 universities have compiled.
That aside, the federal government has been unusually careful to avoid giving the impression of racial profiling. It has been careful to avoid such demagoguery as the Californian interment camps of WWII for Americans of Japanese origin or descent. Dubyah has gone out of his way to praise Islam and given speeches at American mosques, even alienating a few of his most vociferous rlight wing fundamentalist allies. Admittedly, he's doing it because he doesn't want to alienate his MidEastern allies who could be very helpful in his current obsession, but at least he's showing commonsense in some area.
__________________
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe. | | |
12-31-2002, 08:39 AM
|  | Twisted Sister | | Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Texas
Posts: 8,739
| | @ Smass: Thank you...
I suppose this is a point I would have assumed was self evident, but every day people are deported from not only the USA, but every country world wide.
Is it perhapse because these students were middle eastern, and not say German, (like my cousin who was deported on a visa violation) or Hispanic (Hundreds deported every day across the Texas border) That we are even discussing this in the first place. Have we become so obsessed with being politically correct that we jump so quickly to afford any group special "hands off" status in some paranoid attept not to seem prejudice? The fact that these two student made the news at all tells me we are doing a pretty good job of NOT indulging in racial profiling. I see middle eastern students on the local campuses every day, attending classes, going about their business, laughing, studying, making friends, playing frisby. IMHO, This is hardly the picture of a country who is actively persecuting an ethnic group.
I am rather proud of the job we are doing 
__________________
Scayde Moody
(Pronounced Shayde)
The virtue of self sacrifice is the lie perpetuated by the weak to enslave the strong | | |
12-31-2002, 09:24 AM
|  | Exalted Member | | Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Nowheresville
Posts: 2,795
| | |
@Scayde
Yahh *little kids voice*
Anyhow. Break the rules, do the time. Show me a case in which that school let non middle eastern kids (documented, not just talk) stay out of any trouble when violating the law.
__________________
Jackie Treehorn: People forget the brain is the biggest sex organ.
The Dude: On you maybe.
| | |
12-31-2002, 10:48 AM
| | Super Moderator | | Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: The sun, the moon, and the stars.
Posts: 30,707
| | |
Where I would be much more concerned is not on the federal level, but on the local, human one. Dubyah can speak of tolerance all he likes; his political concentration on two MidEastern nations to the exclusion of a far greater threat from North Korea sends a very diffferent signal down to his obedient, uncritical audience. There has already been a rise in hate crimes against Arabs, and I'd expect that to escalate as the administration continues to focus its policy on Israeli carte-blanche and The Invadable Evil That Is Iraq.
__________________
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe. | | |
12-31-2002, 11:43 AM
| | Exalted Member | | Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Nowheresville
Posts: 2,795
| | |
As a 20 year old white male I find myself currently and always in a situation of "not being able to understand how they feel" which I feel is crap. Anyhow back to my point... I have a friend, lets call him Alikhan, cause thats his name.
Arab. Really nice guy, spare the excessive lies he speels out to get attention, but otherwords a really nice guy. After 9/11 he was worried to high hell about being judged by his peers in an unfair manner. He is a rather intelligent guy so I have seen him get out of arguments and win with ignorant people... (He is lucky he is freaking 6'3 and huge... scares most angry people). It sucks for him but he once told me something that made me think and this is from him, not some 20 year old white kid who cant understand..
(Horribly mis quoted, I was probably drunk... usually am)
"Hey they aren't hating ME there hating those *******s who wanna screw with MY people"
Even when he is in the scope of racial prejudices he realizes that he is American and not Arabic *even if of decent he is still American*
(ok real point here)
When I was in Highschool I lived in another city then the school i went too. I had to get a permit. With this permit I was GRANTED the PRIVILIDGE to go to this school. What that meant was without any warning the school could cancel or take away my permit, and if I violated ANY of thier rules... It would be revoked.
Seemed pretty fair to me.
__________________
Jackie Treehorn: People forget the brain is the biggest sex organ.
The Dude: On you maybe.
| | |
12-31-2002, 11:44 AM
| | Twisted Sister | | Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Texas
Posts: 8,739
| | Quote: Originally posted by fable
Where I would be much more concerned is not on the federal level, but on the local, human one. Dubyah can speak of tolerance all he likes; his political concentration on two MidEastern nations to the exclusion of a far greater threat from North Korea sends a very different signal down to his obedient, uncritical audience. | My Daddy always said
"Never let your left hand know what your right hand is doing"
Who is to say that GWB is not very active in North Korea, but for certain reasons is being very hush hush about it while fanning an Iraqi smoke screen. Quote: |
There has already been a rise in hate crimes against Arabs.
|
As far as a rise in hate crimes, that is a very unfortunate thing, but it is not exclusive to Arabs...4 little girls were killed last year here in East Texas when a predominately African-American Baptist Church was set ablaze in an act of unspeakable violence. My point being there are people who HATE, who are Cruel, and sadistic. I think it is wrong to blame our president for the actions of these pariah in our midst... Quote: |
I'd expect that to escalate as the administration continues to focus its policy on Israeli carte-blanche and The Invadable Evil That Is Iraq.
| The irony here is that I have several Jewish friends who are dead set against Bush because he has, (in their opinions) abandoned Israel to their enemies. While we went after ours with lethal intent, they are told to "stand down" in the interest of regional peace. I suppose it is all in the perception of the person queried.
I feel GW Bush has done a remarkable job under the worst of circumstances...He continues to hold my support, not because I am a member of some "obedient and uncritical audience", but because he has earned my respect. Something that very few are able to accomplish. 
__________________
Scayde Moody
(Pronounced Shayde)
The virtue of self sacrifice is the lie perpetuated by the weak to enslave the strong | | |
12-31-2002, 11:47 AM
| | Exalted Member | | Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Nowheresville
Posts: 2,795
| | |
Like me for my ability to make the sweet sweet sweet love she knows she needs.
Wait. I typed my thoughts again, tee hee.
__________________
Jackie Treehorn: People forget the brain is the biggest sex organ.
The Dude: On you maybe.
| | |
12-31-2002, 12:13 PM
| | Twisted Sister | | Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Texas
Posts: 8,739
| | LOL...Down Thug...Down.....
Bad Thug...Behave.
__________________
Scayde Moody
(Pronounced Shayde)
The virtue of self sacrifice is the lie perpetuated by the weak to enslave the strong | | |
12-31-2002, 03:17 PM
|  | Moderator | | Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: London, UK.
Posts: 4,574
| | Quote: Originally posted by Askal
>>Seems to me that you should have started a thread for that (or any other topic) if you felt the need for it yourself. Somebody spoke their mind and this seems the place to do it.
>>Yes, profiling works. The same way shooting fish in a barrel works, you get the ones you need for dinner and a whole lot extra.
Even then, I agree that the US has little choice but to resort to racial profiling. No argument there. However, perhaps they could be less brusque about it. It's easy to support a law if there's no chance in hell you'll ever be subject to it yourself. A little sympathy for those who inadvertently get caught in the system will go a long way in protecting American interests abroad in the long run.
>> I don't know what gave me that idea. Perhaps its the way you seem to indirectly attack people who sympathize with the "inconvenience" of being detained for what other (white) foreign students get away with on a regular basis and manage to confuse it with patriotism...although Lint reminds me that you're from the UK.
>If you read the thread, there were only two replies to the initial topic...hardly "picking on." I am a little disturbed however that a "straw man" argument like the one you put forward seems to gain such easy acceptance...argue on the merits without confusing the issue with emotion and I may have kept my trap shut. . | *Sigh*
Judging by your passive-aggressive "point-by-point" "approach" and patronising use of "quotation marks", I think you are in need of a "chill pill" now.
Seems to me I am free to reply wherever I like - especially as a counter to the propaganda and misperceptions of others. You misunderstood that point completely.
Brusque? Sympathy? Come, come. A handful of students? Get your perceptions pre-formed opinions straight. Also, as a citizen of the UK I would be more than likely subject to these rules in the US. I decided not to jump to any conclusions about your country of residence.
Me indirectly attacking people? I am not so underhand, fortunately. I am a much more direct person.
Read the thread? Please, such a novice trollish device won't work on me. I post so infrequently these days, I choose targets carefully.
Likewise, I am constantly surprised how such naive perceptions as your's of the world are grasped readily and without question by others. It would appear that getting emotional over a handful of wrong-doers is the issue here, and confusing that with other, quite rightly, more emotional issues. Believe you me, it is an emotional topic.
 | | |
01-01-2003, 12:20 AM
| | Exalted Member | | Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: in a box with great big windows
Posts: 68
| | |
@Gruntboy
Unlike the quick retort, a "point for point" adresses specific issues and avoids confusion (most of the time). Judging by your last post, it seems I'm not the only one anal enough to get into details.
Quotation marks are punctuation, if you want to read more into it than that, it's not my problem.
How is it that what I say is naive, propaganda, misconception and pre-formed opinion (if such a thing even exists); and your words are truth?
Anyway, this is getting nowhere. Feel free to target me as much as you want. You're getting too wound up over this...really. Knock yourself out and feel free to be as direct as you want.
I said it before....Peace.
__________________
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."
- Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)
| | Thread Tools | Search this Thread | | | | | Display Modes | Rate This Thread |  Linear Mode | | 
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
| | |
|
