fable's Q&A on classical music

[Chanak]

@fable: Interesting that you refer to works as being satirical, humorous, etc...for I have detected this nuance in some of the works I have listened to in the past. Being rather unschooled in the subject at hand - in particular, ignorant of the all-important history behind symphonies and their composers - I have simply relied upon my sense of musical equilibrium to notice this. I find some of Beethoven's work to be hilarious, as well as Tchaichovsky's, to cite two examples. Some of their most grandiose movements seem to be satirical in essence, though they could be interpreted in other ways as well. That is one of the great beauties of music, to me...it's layers can be endless, simple yet complex in a single note.

[fable]

That's a good thought, @Chanak. Classical music isn't one "thing," but dozens of things spread across nearly a thousand years and more than a dozen cultures and sub-cultures. As such, it's going to represent a great variety of attitudes and levels of complexity. The kind of "I'm serious, listen to me" works that people identify with classical music (thanks in part to plenty of bad Teutonic philoso-musicology from the 19th and early 20th centuries) represents only a fraction of its true content.

Humor in classical music? Definitely.

Francis Poulenc is a perfect example. Many of his works cheerfully mix melodies written in many styles from many periods plus popular and folk music, in a way that clearly shows he doesn't give a damn and is simply enjoying himself. Click on the 10th selection on this page, for example, to hear the first bit of the final movement from his Harpsichord Concerto. It's as far from serious as you can get. One exasperated "serious" critic remarked that "Poulenc is the most loquacious of composers. When he hasn't got anything to say, he says it," and in a way, that's true. But who cares?

Another is Jean Francaix. At a time in the mid 20th century when composers were for the most part writing in a style that was as far-removed from public appreciation as possible (and didn't care, as long as they were praised by their colleagues and moved ahead in academia), Francaix was writing light-hearted, instantly accessible music.

A third is Albert Roussel. Try the 3rd, 7th, 19th and 20th cuts here. It's not the best performance out there, but it gives a great flavor for what Roussel could achieve in his faster, more jocular symphonic movements.

All three of these composers certainly had their serious sides. Poulenc wrote a harrowing opera and several extremely serious religious settings. Francaix adapted his manner agilely to large-scale, more serious works, and Roussel could easily write in any mood he chose. But all three demonstrate that you don't need to frown all the time to write classical music.

Others? Shostakovich, as I mentioned, above. Lord Berners--whose ballet, The Triumph of Neptune, includes a (deliberately) off-key rendition of the opening line from that old ballad, "The Last Rose of Summer." Leonard Bernstein, whose operetta Candide is filled with sly takeoffs on other composers. Peter Schickele, who, under the pseudonym PDQ Bach, has released some wonderfully silly satires on baroque period classical music. (His best album by far was his first. You can't hear the music on the Web, but you can hear some of his introductory patter here.

Those will do for a start.

[Lost One]

Hi Fable. I've played the piano for some years and as such, I've had to learn many classical pieces. First of all though, I'm wondering by your great knowledge and interest in music, if you play any instrument. I know I have many questions about certain classical score sheets and how to go about playing them.

Is there any good contemporary classical music out there today?


Could you make a list of what you think are the 10 most popular classical pieces out there? You know, the ones even people who don't listen to classical music have heard of before. Just so I can buy a cd with popular classical music that others who come to my house can relate to.

I'm also looking for popular classic piano pieces that I can play solo on the keyboard. Any suggestions? I learned Turkish March on the keyboard but it's a simplified version and I'm out of ideas for others. Most of the classical pieces I've learned thus far are not well known, which makes it less interesting when I play it to guests.

Thanks.

[fable]

Originally Posted by Lost One

Hi Fable. I've played the piano for some years and as such, I've had to learn many classical pieces. First of all though, I'm wondering by your great knowledge and interest in music, if you play any instrument. I know I have many questions about certain classical score sheets and how to go about playing them.

I used to play both classical piano (very badly, and thirty five years ago), and folk accordion (mediocre, and up to fifteen years ago). Afraid I can't help you regarding sheet music: my apologies.

Is there any good contemporary classical music out there today?

Short story: yes.

Long story: when Arnold Schoenberg developed his 12-tone-system in the early part of the 20th century (and he was only one of several working in that direction), he probably never realized it would become a system of shackles rather than music-making. Academia everywhere used it as a litmus test to decide whether students should receive good grades, whether teachers should get tenure and compositions be published. Actual performance to the public was of no interest, because this kind of music was (with a few notable and excellent exceptions) music-by-the-rules, concept music, without any concern for audiences.

There were always exceptions, like Shostakovich, Milhaud, Stravinsky (who used the 12-tone-system a few times), etc. But by and large, classical music-making kept getting further and further away from audiences, until it reached the point that John Cage could write a composition entitled "4:33" in which there was random noise on either side of 4:33 worth of silence.

In the 1980s, this situation changed radically when a specific composer, Rochberg, decided he needed to say things in classical music that couldn't be communicated emotionally through the 12-tone-system. He wrote entire movements and then works in the style of other composers he loved--Beethoven, Mahler--and audiences woke up. Suddenly, there was an enormous demand for classical music of this kind. Composers who had sniffed at tonal music for years "discovered" the joys of writing accessible music...for a fee, of course. But there were many who had never lost touch with tonal music, and they simply, finally, came to the fore. Finally, once again, Western classical music was connected to its audiences.

Nowadays, there's plenty of good classical music. I'm not recommending specific composers, because I don't know what sort of things please you. The stylistic range of these works is great, however. It helps to have a clear idea what you're searching for.

Could you make a list of what you think are the 10 most popular classical pieces out there? You know, the ones even people who don't listen to classical music have heard of before. Just so I can buy a cd with popular classical music that others who come to my house can relate to.

It might be easier to suggest a recording: "Learning by Example, vol 1," with Mordecai Shehori, pianist (Cembal d'amour CD 108). It contains Beethoven's Fur Elise, and a host of other popular short works by Chopin, Schumann, etc. It's a lot better than the usual faceless "greatest hits" album that has one movement from column A, one from column B, and all in dreadful performances and sound.

I'm also looking for popular classic piano pieces that I can play solo on the keyboard. Any suggestions? I learned Turkish March on the keyboard but it's a simplified version and I'm out of ideas for others. Most of the classical pieces I've learned thus far are not well known, which makes it less interesting when I play it to guests.

Would that be the Turkish March from Beethoven's Ruins of Athens? Because if so, you may want to check out Mozart's Piano Sonata in A, K.331. That's the one with the famous Turkish Rondo as its finale. I used to play it, and occasionally managed to get through without feeling that the spirit of the composer would have knifed me if possible. You might also try some of the sonatas of Domenico Scarlatti--though little known by non-classical enthusiasts, they are wonderfully catchy and tuneful. Consider finding "The Hen" by Rameau, another well known work, and Traumerei, by Robert Schumann.

Remember, the magic of the music lies partially in the hands of the pianist. You can make an unknown work rivetting to all but idiots (who shouldn't be invited to your house, anyway ) by your use of dynamics, tone, pacing and phrasing. Best of luck.

[Chanak]

Originally Posted by fable

...It's a lot better than the usual faceless "greatest hits" album that has one movement from column A, one from column B, and all in dreadful performances and sound.

Argh. Isn't this the truth. Customarily, I listen to NPR for great performances and information regarding the composer, the background of the piece, etc. One can find popular music CDs with an inner jacket that reads like a book...complete with lyrics, bizarre artwork, and so forth. I have yet to find a CD dedicated to a great performance with such an inner jacket, that helps to explain the backdrop of the time, the composer's life and situation (as in, was it composed at the behest of a patron? For a particular church? Was the composer down and out, or living in the lap of luxury and the darling of the day?), and other tidbits which greatly expand the experience. As much as I intuitively appreciate fine music, classical music demands more than your ear.

I think of my fiance, who is a vocalist with classical training. In order to earn extra credit for an elective course in high school, she (with the help of her instructor, who accompanied her on the piano) performed several different types of music, from Gregorian Chant to more contemporary music, in six different languages. Included in her performance was background information on each piece...and the programme contained translations of her non-English performances. It was a tremendous effort which earned her the highest marks...and it is easy to see why. I believe the background information was crucial, and without it it would have been just great singing.

[Morlock]

I've just recently been at two spectacullar concerts- A Daniel Barenboim recital of Beethoven Sonatas and Brahms' first symphony and Violin Concerto.
Both were amazing, I was so awed by the presence of a world renowned soloist a few meters away from me. I was at a YoYo Ma concert once, but he wasn't the main event (he was playing John Williams' beautiful Cello concerto).
And with Brahms, all I could say is- you could see why it took him 20 years to complete his work.

[Volk]

Concerto Grosso by Vivaldi or Marrige of Figaro by Mozart are great fast pieces, and their not hard to find. Or for something slower with a lot of quick notes and moves you can try Camile Saint-Sens Danse Macabre.

[fable]

Gents, please keep this thread to questions about classical music, okay? If you want to offer your opinions of works, let's by all means start another thread for that.

[blake]

Can you tell me of some similar pieces that sound like this or are considerably
mopey?

That particualr piece is by Shostavich(sp?) and i really love it, if you can suggest some similar artists i would appreciate it.

[fable]

That definitely wasn't Shostakovich. I can't say I've heard it before, but it sounds from some internal phrasing like one of the many short violin display pieces written by Fritz Kreisler. Most of Kreisler's work tends to be more positive in mood, however.

Are you simply looking for something that sounds very emotionally depressing? If so, I'd recommend several of Tchaikovsky's works, including the Romeo and Juliet Overture and, above all, the Sixth Symphony. If you want something on a more intimate scale, you might want to consider some of the early piano music of Debussy, such as his Clair de lune and Girl with the Flaxen Hair. Both of these pieces have also been arranged for violin and piano, if that's what you want, as well.

Explain a little more about what you're looking for, an I'll try to help out. Hopefully, this is a start.

[fable]

Oh! Two composers I would suggest without reservation to you are Gerald Finzi and Robin Milford. Both were first-half-of-the-20th-century English types; in fact, they were good friends. And no, not like that. Finzi's music exemplifies a kind of sweetly solemn nobility, with a sharp undercurrent of melancholy. The melancholy is still more pronounced in Milford, where it really hits black depression at times. Finzi was a man with a deep spiritual core (agnostic, as far as I can tell; that doesn't matter) who didn't falter despite the general preoccupation of the critics and music establishment with serial music at that time. Milford, alas, couldn't handle it. He attempted suicide several times, and finally succeeded. There are excellent releases by both on such labels as Hyperion and Chandos. Check out the Tower Records website just to listen to the first minute or so of a number of works by them, and judge for yourself.

[blake]

Im looking for something with alot of piano in it, and then some cello or violin, oh and something with a depressing mood to it. I will check those composers you named now, thanks a bunch.

[JazzyAnna]

@fable
Have you ever heard Introduction, Dance and Furioso, by Herbert Couf? It's not really classical since it was written in 1959 for saxophone. But it is a beautiful piece. Just wondering.

[fable]

Originally Posted by JazzyAnna

@fable
Have you ever heard Introduction, Dance and Furioso, by Herbert Couf? It's not really classical since it was written in 1959 for saxophone. But it is a beautiful piece. Just wondering.

Can't say I've heard anything by Couf. I know he's a Detroit saxophonist and teacher, but not much else. Frankly, I'm glad there are more composers showing up whom I haven't heard of, because it means classical music is alive and changing, once more. It's growing.

The date of composition doesn't determine whether a work is classical or not. It's true that for much of the 20th century, classical music was largely a retrospective art, due to the overwhelming influence of academic serialism. This isn't a snark at serial composers, but rather at the hidebound mentality, lock-step uniformity, and dogmatic insistence on theirs being the only true *modern* classical music, that predominated for so long in much of the profession. I've known composers of diatonic music who eventually took up other careers because the fellowships, awards and jobs were being given by serialists to serialists.

Since the late 1980s, though, the situation has changed drastically. Even some of the serialist ranks have been broken, with composers like Penderecki turning out neo-romantic works. All styles are in, once again. This is a very good thing for the art, which (like modern painting) was too long stuck on admiring itself and sneering at the public.

[JazzyAnna]

Originally Posted by fable

The date of composition doesn't determine whether a work is classical or not.

I know that, I was going to say classical, but I thought I might be wrong since it isn't from the Classical Era. Sorry.
But anyway, it is a really cool piece. I'm playing it for Solo and Ensemble Festival.