Do you do sushi, like I don't? (spam on subject only!)

[Jhereg]

For a very long time, my standard response to, "Do you like Sushi" was, "Don't know, never tried it." I did, and I don't. The funny thing is that I love Salmon, but the Salmon Sushi nearly made me hork. An acquired taste, I think.

The wasabe, though was a different thing. I think that is more like black olives - it tastes vile the first time down, but you can learn to like it.

[Jhereg]

Originally Posted by fable

Please, guys--keep the spam on subject.

Speaking of which, although we keep seeing plenty of evidence that dolphins are not merely sentient but possess a sense of self, I understand dolphin and whale meat continue to be served in some seaboard cultures. What's your thought on that?

Without prejudice, I believe Dolphins are sentient, and perhaps much smarter than we are. They just happen to be victims of a harvesting method that doesn't discriminate by sentiency.

For myself, I would never choose to eat either Dolphin or Whale. However, lacking any information to the contrary, I will not elect to badger people who elect to eat those creatures.

I would not do it. I would elect, of my personal volition, to discourage it. I would not, of my personal volition, attack it. Long and short, I won't do it, but I won't bug others if they choose to do it.

When I learn how to to talk to these creatures, then I might have more to say.

[dragon wench]

Speaking of which, although we keep seeing plenty of evidence that dolphins are not merely sentient but possess a sense of self, I understand dolphin and whale meat continue to be served in some seaboard cultures. What's your thought on that?

My thoughts are complicated, I suppose... If a given creature is endangered, as is the case with several species of whales, I feel it should not be eaten, under any circumstances...
Personally, I'd have a lot of trouble eating whale or dolphin, there's something about it that triggers a strong, emotional reaction, much as is often the case with the consumption of horse meat (fairly common in Holland, at least traditionally).
But, to play devil's advocate, from a purely rational point of view,why should a perception of self make a difference to us? Why is it any different to eat whale meat than it is beef (assuming for a moment the species of whale is not in danger of extinction)? In either case, we are consuming a living creature, why draw a distinction?

[Moonbiter]

Originally Posted by dragon wench

My thoughts are complicated, I suppose... If a given creature is endangered, as is the case with several species of whales, I feel it should not be eaten, under any circumstances...
Personally, I'd have a lot of trouble eating whale or dolphin, there's something about it that triggers a strong, emotional reaction, much as is often the case with the consumption of horse meat (fairly common in Holland, at least traditionally).
But, to play devil's advocate, from a purely rational point of view,why should a perception of self make a difference to us? Why is it any different to eat whale meat than it is beef (assuming for a moment the species of whale is not in danger of extinction)? In either case, we are consuming a living creature, why draw a distinction?

That's not playing the devil's advocate, that's perfectly logical. People eat so many strange things, and I've eaten, when I think of it, an astonishing amount of stuff that either goes under the "Blech" category, or outside the "norm" for a lot of people. I could put up such a puke-worthy list that the McDonalds generation would have a collective thrombosis. The French eat snails and frogs, the Japanese eat raw fish, the Malaysians eat centipedes and bugs, the Norwegians eat... just about anything... The comedian Dennis Leary made a great point when he asked "why do we only want to save the animals that are cute?"

To get the thread back on track, yes, I eat Sushi. It's not my favourite, but I think most of it is pretty good, healthy and a Sushi dinner, much like a fondue dinner, makes for great social dining. I'm also a fishing nut, so it kind of goes with the territory, though I'd rather prepare fish in different ways.

[VonDondu]

Originally Posted by dragon wench

Personally, I'd have a lot of trouble eating whale or dolphin, there's something about it that triggers a strong, emotional reaction...

But, to play devil's advocate, from a purely rational point of view,why should a perception of self make a difference to us? Why is it any different to eat whale meat than it is beef (assuming for a moment the species of whale is not in danger of extinction)? In either case, we are consuming a living creature, why draw a distinction?

If you want to take emotion out of your reasoning, then you should be able to consider any "rational" possibility you can think of. For example, since human beings are naturally carnivores, why should anything be impermissible to kill and eat? Why not whales and dolphins? Why not other people? Why not our own children?

The answer, of course, is "moral values", but it isn't easy to distinguish such things from "emotions". Philosophers have grappled with the rational basis for moral values for thousands of years. Most people fall back on "natural laws" and their own instincts. On a related note, I recently read a news article about some research that showed that the incest taboo is deeply rooted in the human psyche. Essentially, if a child sees his own mother caring for another child of the opposite sex, then it's impossible for the first child to be sexually attracted to the other child. It's "hard wired". Does that make it "rationale"? Hardly. But that doesn't mean it's not a universal value. I suspect there's something inside our brains that makes us want to kill our own children at times (people do things to their kids that they would never do to other people), but there's also something else that counters those impulses and makes us sick to our stomachs at the thought of causing any harm to our own children. When it comes to evolution, it's all about survival of the species. The thing is, I don't think people are even capable of analyzing their own instincts--we have some sort of blind spot. Maybe that itself is an evolutionary trait which keeps us from second-guessing ourselves too much.

And so, we feel certain that eating other people is wrong, and we might even become sick at the thought of it. But apparently there isn't any reason to feel that way about other species. If we don't think about the moral implications (which we have a strong tendency not to do), then we kill and eat whatever we want. If we don't think it's wrong, then it isn't wrong. It isn't wrong to eat anything besides humans because we don't feel that it is wrong. I suspect it's as simple as that.

But then you get those pesky doubts, eh? There must be a REASON why it's wrong to eat humans. So we think of moral values such as, "It's wrong to kill humans." But obviously, that's problematic, for a variety of reasons. There are plenty of exceptions in our own moral code, and it begs the question, anyway. So we try to figure out what makes humans special so that we can justify that particular moral value. You see, we start with the value, and then we try to justify it. "We were created by God" and "we have a soul" seem to be the top two justifications for most people, but theologians and atheists have tried to do better than that. The consciousness/awareness of one's self argument carries the most weight. So naturally, when we consider why it might be immoral to kill members of other species, we try to apply the same arguments.

I've already addressed the question of why a whale out in the wild should be left alone even though it isn't wrong to send livestock to the slaughterhouse. Essentially, there are two different food chains involved--the natural food chain, if you will, and the artificial food chain that humans created to convert agricultural products into meat. Rationally, there is no justification for killing a whale (besides "I'm hungry"), but it would be pointless NOT to eat the livestock which were created and raised specifically for that purpose. If that doesn't make sense to you, then I don't know what else to say.

[Chanak]

I was exposed to sushi as a five-year old whilst living on the island of Okinawa during the early 1970s. My friend's mother, a native Okinawan, served us up some and I will never forget how much I liked it.

The like of sushi persists to this day. With or without soy, ginger or that lovely Wasabi, gimme some. I'm a fish nut, an eel nut, and a "it comes from the sea" nut. I could have feathers and live as an Osprey, and be quite content. Raw or cooked, it's game to me.

In regards to the consumption of whales by humans: certain groups of people on this planet have derived substinence from consuming whales and their heirs. I read a rather interesting article in National Geographic a few years ago regarding the status of whale populations worldwide. The indication was they (meaning groups of scientists) were discovering they had woefully underestimated whale populations primarily due to an ignorance of their migratory patterns and associated habits. A proposition was put forth by one Japanese scientist that I am hard-pressed to oppose. In a nutshell: the average whale can yield up to 40 tons of consumable meat and other food products. That is quite impressive. Given the current state of world famine and the destruction to the environment caused by land-based cattle, why should we not purposefully cultivate whale species for consumption?

A rather interesting idea, to be sure. Bison, for example, have made a comeback on the North American continent thanks to a demand for the meat of this species. It is estimated that roughly 90% of the Bison accounted for in the figure of 450,000 in North America are held in private hands...i.e., Bison ranchers. Many of these ranchers are found in Canada, so it is not necessarily a US-only phenomenon. This has serious implications for the species, IMO. I don't agree with it at all, since it will ultimately lead to the demise of Bison and the emergence of simply another form of domesticated cattle.

[Tricky]

Sort of. I don't dislike it. Me being Dutch probably has a great deal to do with it. We pretty much eat the fish straight out of the water. Like bears, kinda. Only they can't wear wooden shoes.