Divorce and Individualism

[dragon wench]

@Ariona...
Oh my God.... I can barely imagine how devastating that must have been..
That he threw it into your face like that is appalling. I guess, in some ways, it might have been easier than enduring the hunches and suspicians that people often go through, in that you were not spending an extended period of time tormented by speculation, but in other ways I'm not sure I can really imagine something more hurtful....

[Magrus]

Never been married, but there was one girl I decided might be worth it whom I was dating up until last summer. She went off for college, and I was supposed to visit her for spring break but financial problems came up and I simply couldn't afford it. I needed something from a doctor and my health and the trip money for the most part I had saved went to that instead. She was horribly upset and threatened to break up with me over it. A friend of hers ended up being evicted from his house during spring break and she let him stay there for a week. She asked me if I'd mind and I said no, I trusted her. Well, sure enough I shouldn't have. That was guy #1 of 3 she slept with to get even with me for having a medical emergency that prevented me from being able to afford coming up.

I even made it a point to send her enough money to be able to buy me a ticket to see her later to hold onto until I could save enough money to get a second ticket home, and money for food and such while I was there. The money I sent her went to the college ping pong table. I found out in oh, July all of what happened. Apparently the guilt go to her and she broke down sobbing and told me. She couldn't understand why I didn't want to be with her and couldn't trust her at all anymore either.

[RandomThug]

Well here is something I have a recent knowledge of, considering I am getting served later this week with divorce papers. I did not have time/patience to read everyones post so If I repeat stuff well sorry.

Big point to make here... first off that statement one out of every two marriages ends in divorce is loaded. it doesnt clarify that half those divorces are the same person... for instance if I get married/divorced five more times it goes down as five failed independent marriages. Its not like every second wedding of every couple ends in divorce.

Moonbiter hit close to what I believe... Its not the lack of love or the impartialness to what marriage is. Its the culture we live in and the direction its heading... Bob Dylan said it best somewhere in the seventies "Nothing is sacred anymore" and nothing is. In this fast food, fast wars, cellphone/credit card blah blah blah. Everyone wants something. People talk about how thier parents have been married for X years... well 30 40 years ago it wasn't 2005.

I know why I am getting divorced. Because we rushed. We werent prepaired and we got caught. Do I love her? I believe I am still madly in love with the idea of who she was, but not who she is. I believe that goes both for her feelings towards me. I got out before kids, before we had any big assets together etc so I am ok. I am only 23 so I will survive. My parents are together and have been for thirty or so years. Doesn't mean they haven't had times where it might have been divorce... its just they weren't raised with that being an acceptable way out. Most older people are like that...

I've lost faith in almost everything except good whiskey and the Blues Brothers soundtrack (first movie). So I am off to clean my house in an attempt to invite young and willing women to my house.

theres this fight club quote I love to use...

"The condom is the glass slipper of our generation... you slip one on... you dance all night and in the morning you through it away and the persons gone"

Kinda a misquote but it works. Nothing is sacred. Well not in western culture...

I am starting to enjoy the lack of sacred. Means i have to care less about you and can concentrate more on me. Anyhow... cleaning calls.


Oh yeah and cheaters *!@#*!#*!@#*!#!#*!# suck

[Chanak]

Years ago, I used to believe certain things. Things such as, "there's a meaning and purpose to life". Whenever a time would come that put these beliefs to the test, I would grit my teeth, hold fast, and watch my entire life crumble to dust before my eyes. The only things I have ever built that have endured the test of time are those things I have made with my hands: houses, decks, and furniture. I built those things, and they are all strong, sturdy, and will certainly be around after I die. However, those are things I built with wood, concrete, and steel.

The things which I have built with my own dreams have all collasped as soon as the storms blew in. I have never been able to keep anything together: not a job, a friend, a lover, nor a wife. Like sand, it slips through my fingers. I survived for the longest time by being hard-headed and stubborn, going at it again after every failure. With every failure, I lost a little more than I did before. At first, my losses were material possessions, and a dark depression that would eventually lift. After my possessions were reduced to what I could put into the back of a pickup truck, I began to lose intangible things - things like my self-esteem and my sanity.

Over and over again - 4 times in the past 12 years. 3 of those losses were marriages. Like a fool, I would try again. Although the last loss was not a marriage, it was perhaps the worst of them all. I bought a .44 magnum revolver, loaded it with hollow-point magnum rounds, and drove to an out-of-the-way place in central Florida. I parked the truck at a construction site and walked out into some undeveloped land. I sat listening to the alligators roaring in the distance for a while, then placed the barrel of the handgun over my right eye. I wanted to do it. I had tried to do it several times in the past, and there was nothing to stop me now. The .44 magnum was insurance that I wouldn't end up living through it. I wouldn't even have to worry about getting the angle perfect - a .44 magnum hollow-point round at point-blank would leave nothing left to survive on. It would all vacate through a gaping exit wound.

The problem was, I couldn't even make my finger budge on the trigger. I struggled with this for a while - and that's when the doubts about going through with it began sneaking in. I eventually gave up trying, and decided to try again the next day.

And now, over a year later, I am married again (#4). Sometimes, when things are quiet, I begin to suspect that I am running on autopilot, going through the motions of a relationship. Perhaps I am fooling myself yet again. I'm not sure. Lately, I have been thinking about that day in Florida, and wonder if I did the right thing.

[RandomThug]

I find myself wondering what would happen to me if I made this choice or that choice.

Last night when I fell asleep I was in a full panic. I ****ing freaked out... started to choke (around 2 am). I knew that I had no chance of going back when it was good and was so worked up about tommorow. I figured if I wasn't here it wouldnt matter... I said last night aloud in my room... I asked god to take me in my sleep. Then I panicked... figured **** what if he does... and wondered who I would want to tell first "I love you Im sorry"... about ten minutes later I realized no one at this time. I said god, ****ing take my in my sleep.

Last night I had the best dreams I have ever had. No wars... no wierd vampire/science fiction twist. No nightmare. I dreamt that I met this geeky girl who was so cute... we fell in love.

I woke up thismorning and well just started doing stuff... get off my month and a half depression and go forward...

I dont believe in much.. god... faith whatever... but if there is anything last night he told me "Hey look... this can be yours"

I have come to two conclusions right now. One, its not important who will miss me when I am dead... I will miss me. I dont wanna go away... I wanna surf again, I wanna get that first look that first kiss again. I get to go for that first walk on the beach... again. I am happy for that.

And two, I am glad Chanak didnt pull the trigger.

[Darth Zenemij]

Time will tell Ariona,Marrige dose kinda suck...

[Ariona]

Thanks for your encouragement, DW! I wish 'hurt' was the word. At that exact moment, there wasn't a word in Webster's Dictionary that could describe what I was feeling at the time. Needless to say, I threw the hoochie out the front door (without her clothes) and locked the door. Then I gave him an ass-chewing of astronomical proportions. The next morning, I filed. I promised myself that I would not get caught in the vicious cycle that most women seem to get themselves into...the hunches, the suspicions, etc. Even though it still hurts to a degree, I won't exactly rule out a second marriage...although the guy would have to be pretty special to make me consider it again. I'm 31 now and a survivor. There IS life after divorce.

Originally Posted by dragon wench

@Ariona...
Oh my God.... I can barely imagine how devastating that must have been..
That he threw it into your face like that is appalling. I guess, in some ways, it might have been easier than enduring the hunches and suspicians that people often go through, in that you were not spending an extended period of time tormented by speculation, but in other ways I'm not sure I can really imagine something more hurtful....

[Ariona]

Thank you, DZ! I am not ruling anything out at this point. Who knows? If the right man comes along...

Marriage is not 50%/50%...it is 100%/100%!

Originally Posted by Darth Zenemij

Time will tell Ariona,Marrige dose kinda suck...

[CM]

Ok before i comment on the large amount of posts here, i wanted to say that cheating and abuse are fair grounds for a divorce. I never stated that divorce is a bad thing. In many cases it is the best thing for a person. However a 50% divorce rate is not based on 50% of the population being abusive or cheating. I would be surprised if it is 10%. Regardless I am sorry Ariona if this topic struck a bad nerve. That not the intent of the post. Also I personally would have killed the individual.

Now on to the posts one by one. I apologise for the delay.

Now Giles everybody knows BS is mine and will always be mine. So no gossiping ok?

I agree divorce is rife and its not a good thing, but that is not the fault of marriage as an institution or that marriage itself is unimportant or has lost its value. Its because people get married to early and too quickly on dumb notions such as love and the like. Everybody has the right to get married even homosexuals. I support their claim even though it is against my religion. It is after all a civil government sanctioned action. I don't see marriage as a religious institution rather a social one.

Luis i never stated that divorce is a bad thing. But the frequency at which it is employed to handle very small issues is amazing. I see divorce as a necessary evil, Islam allows for divorce but also prescribes that it should be a last resort. I don't see Divorce as a last resort. I see it as a necessary evil which is in many ways required esp in my male dominated society. Women are abused they should have a way out. But however that is not an excuse for people to take stupid decisions and rush into marriage.

My basic point is that people take marriage lightly due to the high rate of divorce and its general acceptance. Secondly i state that to the individualistic nature of society people are far more prone to undertake a divorce in todays society as a way to rid themselves of a problem they rather not have the maturity and common sense to deal with.

Life is about compromise. Marriage is a big part of that. However i have seen many people getting a divorce because they don't want to compromise and learn to live with someone else or do things even if they don't want to because someone else asks for it.

Cuchulain82 I wouldn't consider marriage to be a religious institution anymore in most societies. Even muslim ones. It is very much a social one. I will first comment on your second para. The phrase selfish came to mind many times when i was typing that first post. However i refrained from posting it as i did not want to be seen as making a judgement on a society i have only lived in for the past 7 years. I have already been accused in the past of giving a pro-tilt to the muslim mode of thinking and as they say once bitten twice shy.

However if we are talking of all societies and not just western society then i agree people are far more selfish today then they were say 10 years. Due to that selfishness directly linked with the sense of individualism (i was using that phrase instead of selfish) has led to a really large increase in divorce rates because people don't want to compromise within a marriage.

I have no problem with individual rights as long as they do not deter the general good of society. I am very much pro limiting freedom of speech if that includes racists thoughts and hate speech. The general good of society and the collective must be maintained above the rights of the individual.

Ik911 and everybody else i am extremely baffled as why people see marriage as a religious institution. I mean i doubt any of you would see Murder as a religious law. Even though it is part of the 10 commandments and thus a religious law which as become something codified into a secular system. The same with marriage. Once a religious institution but honestly in western society it has lost much of its religious weight over the past 50 years.

BS I actually agree with you. People are rushing into it and its not a good thing. They don't think about it don't do anything logical, feel love will conquer all and refuse to compromise with their chosen partner. I mean how dumb are people really? Marriage should be carefully thought out and then gotten into and once you are there make sure it works. People in my opinion consider divorce far to quickly for it to be normal. I mean you can't have 50% of all the marriage suck because the institution is failing. It is a failure on part of the people that get married and their selfish nature and no desire to compromise.

The two people leave their families, join together, and make a new family. Therefore anything that jeopardizes that, IMO, is disrupting the family.

My last post in response to this for now. I will try to respond later on when i can some time today. I agree with that completely. As BS said the children suffer as do the parents. If the situation is abusive end it. That is what divorce was intended for in my humble opinion. Not a quick fix to a problem where you don't want to compromise and have your way all the time.

Now enough of my ramblings and back to rambling at work.

[fable]

Marriage is a touchstone made by two people. It is what they make of it, over time. Obviously, societies stand to gain from the stability of longterm nuclear family relationships, but whether these exist as marriages or not is entirely up to the people involved. Personally, I'd rather see an unmarried couple together for thirty years who cherish their relationship, than a couple for whom "the bonds of holy matrimony" have become lead chains.

When marriage was viewed as holy, both by the participants and society in general, people took it more seriously. This didn't mean they enjoyed it more; perhaps they enjoyed it less, for having to sustain what they disliked. Many people no doubt ignored their marriage ties on the quiet, but there will never be a history of this, since by its nature, these things were hushed up wherever possible.

It was inevitable that in a secular society that worships unending entertainment, marriage would increasingly be seen as the celebration of a new, expensive purchase. But when the bloom wears off, you're encouraged to trade in your old car for a new one; and when that marriage no longer brings instant gratification and requires some work, Johnny or Jane either gets a divorce and changes partners, or starts ignoring the marriage and changes partners, anyway. This certainly isn't the reason all divorces occur, but I think a lot of this is due to emotional immaturity and lack of personal responsibility on the part of at least one partner. (The other partner can at the least be faulted for going into things leading with their heart alone.) Nobody is around to hold the couple together, so there's no outside incentive to solving problems. I think setting some ground rules at the beginning, either openly or tacitly, makes good sense, but the people who seem to most need these are just the ones who haven't the slightest idea of using them.

[Ariona]

Thanks for your consideration, CM...however, I am fine with it now. I have survived and am looking forward to at least having a long-term relationship with my new love interest. He definitely seems and acts more mature, understanding, and mentally stable than my ex. About 5 years ago, I would've labeled this topic as 'striking a nerve'...but not now. Life goes on and gets better from here!

Originally Posted by CM

Ok before i comment on the large amount of posts here, i wanted to say that cheating and abuse are fair grounds for a divorce. I never stated that divorce is a bad thing. In many cases it is the best thing for a person. However a 50% divorce rate is not based on 50% of the population being abusive or cheating. I would be surprised if it is 10%. Regardless I am sorry Ariona if this topic struck a bad nerve. That not the intent of the post. Also I personally would have killed the individual.