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04-30-2006, 09:26 AM
|  | Exalted Member | | Join Date: Aug 2004
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| | Ugh, my brain's no longer capable of processing information, so I'll just skip to me posting.
I don't believe in Heaven, but I do believe in Hell. This is Hell; this world, this life, this is it.
If I believe in the Christian God, I would say Heaven is quite a dull place, where goody-two shoes are rampant, and all they do is praise God and behave like saps. Hell, in contrast, would be a party. And why not? The sinful people are the ones who have the most fun, and god knows Satan would love to get down with his creations (since we are as much a result of his work as God). 
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04-30-2006, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by fable This ascetic view appealed to early Christians (and until recently, godparents to Christian kids were supposed to help the child at baptism renounce "the world, the flesh, and the Devil." | Interesting...that explains why my aunt was involved in my baptism then. Heh, stuff went down bad at my baptism. My uncle mentioned that I kicked the priest, and he staggered backwards while he bit off his spontaneous curse in the middle of it in front of my whole family.  Quote: |
Originally Posted by Fable It's based on the Gnostic myth of creation, which saw this world as hell (or at best, as limbo), ruled over by an ignorant, bullyingdemiurge of the flesh, | *blinks* Sounds like a twisted version of my view of the Christian diety. I think I would have gotten along with those people.
__________________ "You can do whatever you want to me."
"Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?"
"So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone" |
05-01-2006, 06:00 PM
|  | Banned | | Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: My mind dwells elsewhere . . .
Posts: 8,752
| | I don't believe God would send someone like Ghandi to a firey, burning pit. 
I do believe, however, that there is a heaven, built very much like our earth, except much happier.
Just what I believe. |
05-01-2006, 06:08 PM
|  | Moderator and Twisted Sister | | Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: The maelstrom where chaos merges with lucidity
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Heaven is where the Police are British, the Chefs are French, the Mechanics are German, the Lovers Italian and it's all organised by the Swiss.
Hell is where the Chefs are British, the mechanics are French, the lovers are Swiss, the Police are German and it's all organised by the Italians.
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testingtest12Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
testingtest12.......All those moments ... will be lost ... in time ... like tears in rain. |
05-01-2006, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ch85us2001 I don't believe God would send someone like Ghandi to a firey, burning pit. | I find it impossible to believe that anybody would be sent to an eternity of torture--anybody, including the worst tyrants that history has seen. This has always bothered me. We're not talking 50 years of torment, or 100 years, or 500 years. Or 1000 years, which is taking families back 30 generations.
We're speaking, forever. On the basis of decisions made during 20, 30, or 40 years.
Any being that could do that, condemn anyone for eternity to torment, is a sick, perverted sociopath. And I truly mean that.
But then, this was clearly some nonsense dreamed up by people used to demonizing those who disagreed with them, and flaming their opponents in the loudest, most obnoxious language possible. In other words, the current monotheistic concept of hell was created by the ancient equivalent of Internet trolls. I would expect no better.
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To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe. |
05-01-2006, 06:21 PM
| | Moderator and Twisted Sister | | Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: The maelstrom where chaos merges with lucidity
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| | | In all seriousness...and I don't mean to cause offense,
but if Heaven and Hell exist... wouldn't it be awfully crowded in both places by now?
Which leads to another question, assuming that Heaven and Hell do exist, how long have they been in existence....
That's an awful lot of dead souls jockeying for space, I would think.
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testingtest12Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
testingtest12.......All those moments ... will be lost ... in time ... like tears in rain. |
05-01-2006, 06:35 PM
| | Exalted Member | | Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: NY
Posts: 16,956
| | @ Fable, Indeed. The concept of "Hell" in the Christian sense is terribly uncreative and absurd in my opinion. Personally, my concept of an extremely unpleasant afterlife is one where someone digs through your mind, finds your worst fears and such, and uses them to tailor make a reality which will end up causing you pain on a scale you couldn't dream of. Not some over-heated place with whips. Even if it did involve the Morningstar using pineapples on Hitler, ala Little Nicky style. Quote: |
Originally Posted by dragon wench Which leads to another question, assuming that Heaven and Hell do exist, how long have they been in existence.... | 2793 years to be exact. What? They had to make it all pretty before Mary dropped the lord and savior in a barn.
__________________ "You can do whatever you want to me."
"Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?"
"So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone" |
05-01-2006, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by dragon wench In all seriousness...and I don't mean to cause offense,
but if Heaven and Hell exist... wouldn't it be awfully crowded in both places by now?
Which leads to another question, assuming that Heaven and Hell do exist, how long have they been in existence....
That's an awful lot of dead souls jockeying for space, I would think. | Its made of elastic  .
The capacity of Hell is one of several issues not addressed in Dantes Divine Comedy, AFAIK the only text that actually takes man into Hell. |
05-01-2006, 07:23 PM
| | Banned | | Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: My mind dwells elsewhere . . .
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Originally Posted by dragon wench In all seriousness...and I don't mean to cause offense,
but if Heaven and Hell exist... wouldn't it be awfully crowded in both places by now? | If ones physical does not transgress, you dont have to worry about space, do you?
Plus, I believe an all divine super-being could create what he durn well pleased!!!  |
05-01-2006, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Phreddie The capacity of Hell is one of several issues not addressed in Dantes Divine Comedy, AFAIK the only text that actually takes man into Hell. | There are many texts that do that, Phreddie. Aeneas, in Virgil's Aeneid, goes through hell before returning to earth. So does Odysseus in the Odyssey. There are extent non-canonic early Christian texts tracing Jesus' descent into hell, which literally fulfills your conditions if the Christians in question are followers of an Arian sect, defining Jesus as a superior type of man. Orpheus descended into "hell" as well to bring back his beloved wife, Eurydice; there is no doubt more hidden in the tale, since Orpheus was also the central figure in a powerful Greco-Egyptian religious cult in which he was depicted as a slain and risen god.
Nor is this limited to Greco-Roman and Hebraic sources. The mortal son of the Welsh god Manannân-mac-Lir, Bran, took a voyage to the land of the afterlife (which wasn't anywhere near as bad as others might have it), and returned, as depicted in song and story. The Irish mortal Finn-mac-Cumaill did the same, and so did Istar, in Sumerian tales. All these were repeatedly written down. What can be said is that Dante's poem is the longest of the lot (at least, until the 18th century), but it's not the only one.
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To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
Last edited by fable; 05-01-2006 at 08:52 PM.
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05-02-2006, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Phreddie Its made of elastic .
The capacity of Hell is one of several issues not addressed in Dantes Divine Comedy, AFAIK the only text that actually takes man into Hell. | Also, Milton's Paradise Lost visits Hell; the first chunk of that work takes place in Hell, as Satan labors to escape it.
Fable: but the Hell visited in The Odyssey is a Greek hell, not the Christian hell, and therefore cannot possibly have any bearing on what hell is actually like.
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