Controvercy

[C Elegans]

I totally agree with you here Nael, and the Israel/Palestine issue is discussed in another thread.

I however thank T' for her post, and I agree it's probably not very apt to discuss those issues right now.

But again, I repeat: There is no justification or no decrease of condemnation for the terror attack that happened yesterday.

In a long time and larger perspective though, it's of course of common interest to the whole world to analyze how and why this horrific attack could happen, and what can be done to avoid future attacks.

[T'lainya]

@ CE I agree the attack and the reasoning behind it needs to be analyzed, I'm just not sure this is the proper junction of time and place for it. Later, when feelings aren't as raw maybe. Thanks for the support.

[Yshania]

Edited for timing

[ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: Yshania ]

[Cynik]

The responsibility for this act lies only with it's perpetrators but still one can hope that future US governments learn something from this and never again bankrolls and trains people like Saddam and Bin Laden.

I can see the rationale in the my-enemies-enemy but I'd still be more picky with whom I'd call a friend.

[Tom]

However much I dislike to disagree with both c elegans and T'lainya I do think that now is the time to discuss these things. It is clear that we must debate in a calm and rational way but I think it is instructive for all of us to see the other side of the picture.

By Happy Evil
Quark is right, Saddam is taking the food out his childrens mouths and buying tanks and Scuds with it. He is refusing to do business with the US and therefore bears sole responsibility. Tom's suggestion the US is killing 5000 children a day there is outragous. Take a minute to also mention the work and money sent to countries who dont want to kill americans. We take care of our own where I come from, and I suggest Iraq can do the same.

Dangerous and immoral are still a matter of opinion. Someone needs to say what they feel the US should be doing or not doing in the middle east. Also I am curious what specific actions or policies you guys are calling dangerous and immoral?

First let me say im sorry I havnt replied before.
I wish that 5000 children a month did not die but sadly it is the truth.

The UN Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) reported in December 1995, that more than one million Iraqis have died—567,000 of them CHILDREN —as a direct consequence of economic sanctions. UNICEF reports that 4,500 children under the age of 5 are dying each month from hunger and disease. An April 1997 nutritional survey, carried out by UNICEF with the participation of the World Food Program (WFP) and Iraq’s Minister of Health, indicated that in Central/Southern Iraq, 27.5 percent of Iraq’s 3 million children are now at risk of acute malnutrition.

This is the kind of thing I mean by dangerous and immoral. And let me emphasis that it is not the only thing the US is doing wrong.
Now it is true that sadam hussain could give himself up and everything would be just fine. But he won’t. And this is the scenario that has to be dealt with - anything else is just wishful thinking that is killing people in vast numbers and creating enemies of the western world.

Do anyone see the paralles between now and first/second world war? After the first world war the allies imposed heavy fines and penalties on germany – it shortly blew up and created world war 2.
It was then realised that helping Germany become wealthy and a true democratic nation was a far better way of securing peace. Do we have to learn this again???

By Happy Evil
Tom is not wrong about the opinion of the US in some radical Arab countries and my reply is "Who Cares". I do not feel the need to please everyone in the world who has a problem with the US.
That is what liberals are for.

You should care. More than half a million dead children is something that should make anyone care. It is not about pleasing everybody in the world. It is about reacting in a moral way – the US is not doing that and so it makes enemies. Those enemies migth want vengeance and so we are in the present state of affairs - therefore you should care.

Tom

[Happy Evil]

Originally posted by Tom:
<STRONG>...You should care. More than half a million dead children is something that should make anyone care. It is not about pleasing everybody in the world. It is about reacting in a moral way – the US is not doing that and so it makes enemies. Those enemies migth want vengeance and so we are in the present state of affairs - therefore you should care.
Tom</STRONG>

My "Who Cares" response, maybe a little strong, was directed at the statement "...a whole generation in the middle east see the US as the enemy.." not starving children.

Does the US change its policies all over the world because someone somwhere considers it Immoral??? Thats not very democratic.

People want vengeance on the US because Iraq cant feed its own population???
Saddam has made these decisions for his people and he alone is to blame.

Whether or not US foreign policies are wrong or immoral is again a matter of opinion and perspective.

Who could possibly argue with the mass death of innocent people especially children.
I am just always amazed how the US is to blame, never mentioning any of the relief work the US, its agencies, and money do for people and countries who dont want to kill americans.
The proverbial "missing the forest because of the trees".

@Tom-What does the US do about Iraq?
Send food and money to one of the few nations who celebrated the attacks against us???
Can't the Red Cross go in??? The UN???
What would you do?

[Happy Evil]

Originally posted by Vivien:
<STRONG>Oh yeah?! *Can't think of a good 'pleasing everyone' response to this, but she will.* ...
</STRONG>

I love that! Touche!