Buying a new computer!

[Vicsun]

I am proud to announce that from the 9th of September 2002 I will be the proud owner of a new computer . While this topic is mainly to inform you (and boast ) I wanted to ask all the hard-ware people out there some questions:

1. Which processor is better - AMD or Intel? I have heard that intel is a lot better and one step forward than other processors, but I've also heard that the AMD chip are in some way specially modified for games (and games is what I'll pretty much all that I will use the computer for). After searching the net I found out some sites with computers.. The AMD processor was 1733MHz and costs almost exactly the same as the intel processor, but is noticably slower. This leads me to my second question...

2. The intel and AMD computers are almost exactly the same apart from the processor which I already mentioned, and the motherboard. I was thinking that the faster intel machiene was as expensive as the AMD because perhaps it had a crappier motherboard and doesn't have a cooler (though isn't the lack of a cooler-fan an advantige??)

The intel motherboard:
ECS Socket478 Bundkort
(PC133, 4XAGP, ATA100)

The AMD motherboard:
ECS K7S6a Bundkort
(FSB266, 4XAGP, ATA100, DDR)

Can anyone tell me what's the difference between the two? Those numbers and letters don't mean anything to me ...

3. How much RAM do you think is necessery (remember I'm using the computer for mainly games)? A friend (who is always doing something to his computer and I think knows quite a lot about hardware) claims that his RAM usage never goes beyond 300MB (even though he runs all sorts of applications on his computer) and getting over 512MB is useless. What do you guys think?

4. Which one of the two computers (links above) do you think is a better purchase? I seem to lean towards the intel due to the faster processor and not a very much higher price.

5. And finally if you know any other (danish, or atleast eurpean (i don't want to order a computer from the US and pay for shipping do I? )) sites where I can buy a computer from? So far I've been looking at www.zitech.dk www.mm-vision.dk and www.dell.dk

Thank you

[Silur]

1. This is a religious question, and I'm not going to get myself killed by either side by stating which one is best. Intel is generally more expensive at the same clock frequency, but it runs much cooler and doesn't need liquid nitrogen to cool it . On the other hand, AMD have a few tricks up their sleeve with special instructions for games and multimedia - sort of like MMX but generally regarded as better, and a better arithmetic unit if I'm not misinformed (and no, it's not that the Intel cpu's can't count - that was years ago ). There's also a huge difference between different versions of the Intel P4 cpu's, which is an entirely different can of worms...

2. The motherboards are identical, except for memory and bus speed. The AMD board has DDR (double data rate) memory and a FSB (front side bus) running at 266MHz, so access to main memory and I/O devices is therefore faster than on the Intel board. The main bottlenecks will always be memory access and disk I/O, so the faster your memory and disk, the faster your computer. The clockspeed on your cpu will probably make less of an impact unless your running some heavy number crunching such as mp3/divx/mpeg encoding, encryption or similar.

3. You'd manage on 256MB, but I would recommend 512MB.

4. Like I said, Im not getting into that war... but I think the AMD is going to be faster overall, even at a lower clock rate - frequency isn't everything, it's also a matter of how well you use your available cycles...

5. Nope. Personally, I build my computers from components...

[Vicsun]

Thanks a lot for the fast reply!

Originally posted by Silur:
<snip>
3. You'd manage on 256MB, but I would recommend 512MB.
<snip>

What I was asking was if 1024MB RAM would be better than 512RAM. I wasn't intending on getting less than 512 .

[Silur]

Originally posted by Vicsun
What I was asking was if 1024MB RAM would be better than 512RAM. I wasn't intending on getting less than 512 .

Nope, Windooze is going to be swapping to disk anyway regardless (since it's braindead), so most of that memory will never store a byte . There are a few tricks to get Windooze to stop swapping, but one runs the risk of having the computer run *much* slower in some cases, since M$ obviously believe you have to swap if you're a proper multitasking OS... thus M$ swap even when there's gazillions of bytes of RAM free.

[Mr Flibble]

Good stuff! New computers are always good.

As for your questions:

1. Unless you're a major power user you probably won't notice the difference. AMD processors are generally a bit faster at the same equivalent clock rate than Intel, but at the speeds they're running at I personally don't think it really matters. Athlons perform better at most applications except audio and video compressions where Intel is quite soundly ahead.

The Pentuim 4 has a better response to excessive heat. If you're worried about CPU thermal death due to coolant failure or environmental conditions then go with Intel. AMD reduced the price of the Athlonn by not including and advanced features to protect against such things. Hopefully you won't ever need those features though.

This one really comes down to personal preference. I myself have never owned an Intel processor.

2. Price and features are the factors here. Most people don't consider the motherboard when deciding on a new machine, but they are the key to how well your system performs. Buy a cheap motherboard and you'll get a (mostly) slow and unstable machine. I find it's worth spending a bit more for a higher quality m/b for that very reason. Many manufacturers are adding extra features to their motherboards such as ATA RAID, onboard audio video and LAN etc..

The ECS Athlon board you're looking at seems OK, and includes support for DDR333 memory. Do you know the model of the Intel one?

3. Depends on operating system.. Windows 98 and ME don't make very efficient use of RAM above 512MB, so any more isn't going to do much for you. WIndows 2000 or XP love memory and the more you get the better it is. I'm using 512MB on XP and am seriously looking at doubling it. RAM is cheap (mostly) so get as much as you can.

4. My comments on this are very biased. Pesonal preference IMHO.

5. Can't comment. Wrong side of the plant.

Hope this helps you.

[Silur]

Originally posted by Mr Flibble
Good stuff! New computers are always good.

3. Depends on operating system.. Windows 98 and ME don't make very efficient use of RAM above 512MB, so any more isn't going to do much for you. WIndows 2000 or XP love memory and the more you get the better it is. I'm using 512MB on XP and am seriously looking at doubling it. RAM is cheap (mostly) so get as much as you can.

On XP I would recommend it, although it will still swap to disk. I am very reluctant to move to XP since my own (limited) experience and reports from my friends/colleagues confirm that it's a huge memory/cpu/disk hog. W2k is my current preferred M$ OS, and unless you're running lots of programs in parallel, 512M won't be a problem. Even with 2G it swaps! Oh, and you cant trust the graph in the taskmanager, since it tends to count shared memory more than once...

If I have the choice of 512M more memory and a faster disk (as in low latency/seek time, not ATAxxx), I'd take the disk.

Edit: Oh, and I love your sig

[Bloodstalker]

just a few thoughts..

1. personally, I don't see any real major difference as to either one. I have a pentium, and my friend has an athlon. the rest of the components are almost identical. I don't see any difference in everyday use, not enough to make me pull for one or the other. It IMO comes down to individual preference, as the only processor I have ever hated with a passion was Cyrix (sp?)

2. Enough has been said. personally, I like Shuttle and have seen few problems out of Soyo. Onboard video and sound etc... doesn't excite me all that much, I just look to make sure I have plenty of room for upgrades (cheaper boards tend to have few slots availabe) and a good bus speed

3. agree with Flibble.

4. Strictly individual preference

5. I usyassl get most of my equipment from Tiger-direct. They have some nice stuff, and I have never had a problem with them as far as customer service.

[humanflyz]

Does anyone know a site specializing in PC customization; I really would like to choose componets for myself. I live in the US so it would help if the store/merchant is located in the US. So far I've tried CyberPower, but I want to shop around. But I can't find any other site that lets me full customize my PC. So any help is appreciated.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Congrats Vic.

[Phantom Lord]

Just some thoughts:

1) AMD and Intel provide almost similar performance at the moment, AMD is still slightly cheaper. The question is which standard will last longer, considering the possibilities to re-use the mainboard with a faster processor in a year or two.

2) The Intel mainboard has only 133 MHz frontside bus, you should look for at least 266 MHz. Concerning the AMD mainboard you can look for 333 Mhz, but 266 will do the job. In any case the MoBo should provide a USB 2.0 interface.

I personally don't like ECS mainboards and consider MSI, Gigabyte, Asus or Soyo better choices.

3) 256 is enough for a start, but more is usually better. It really depends on what you're planning to do with your computer. If you want to play the newest games or want to work with graphics a lot, 512 is recommended.

4) They're pretty much the same, except the frontside bus issue, so I'd chose AMD. I wouldn't buy a computer/monitor bundle, usually the monitors in bundles are not top quality.

5) There is a german vendor who provides real high quality machines at a fair price. The site is in german, so I hope you speak a little german.

[KidD01]

Originally posted by Vicsun
1. Which processor is better - AMD or Intel?

I gotta recommend Intel since my AMD gives me a real headache. My recent PC probs seems related with my processor. And from my experience Intel is more stable and rarely gives prob.

[Rob-hin]

Buying a new pc is fun isn't it?
Those moments of picking new and VERY fast hardware and compairing it with your old stuff.

But about the AMD vs Pentium stuff.
I heard Pentium double checks on it's work.
AMD doesn't and therefor are faster with less actuall mhz speed. Thats why they call their 1600 mhz an 1800. I'm not to good on explaining since I dont really get it myself.

Don't know if this info means anything to you, but I thought I'd share it with you.

[KidD01]

Top of all, AMD never publish anything when something is wrong with their processor (i.e. bug) on their news section. Yet they just put it on the Tech reference document which require advance technical knowledge to understand it. They must publish it on an open forum like the news section not just add it on the tech doc. The tech doc rarely downloaded by "common" users I would name this action as "Cover up" and also "Scam".

Example case :
AMD K6-2 processors have certain known bug for RAM above 32MB. Which is why later they release reference B and C type for these processor. You can search for related thing using search engine for detailed matters.

[Silur]

Originally posted by Rob-hin
But about the AMD vs Pentium stuff.
I heard Pentium double checks on it's work.
AMD doesn't and therefor are faster with less actuall mhz speed. Thats why they call their 1600 mhz an 1800. I'm not to good on explaining since I dont really get it myself.

The MHz discussion, and lately the GHz ditto, are a bit like comparing apples and pears. In the old days, there were two schools in processor design, one where you expected all instructions to be done in one cycle and another where an instruction can take a number of cycles. Intel pursued the later, called Complex Instruction Set Computer, or CISC. So, for a Pentium 4 cpu to do a floating point cosine calculation (instruction FCOS) it takes between 190 to 240 cycles, to add one to a register takes one cycle, and most other instructions fall somewhere in between. To make things even more complicated, there's things like pipelining and superscalarity. Pipelining means the next instruction starts execution before the previous one is finished (the next instruction "is in the pipeline"), while superscalarity means that two instructions utilising different parts of the cpu can be executed simultaneously. If you put all this together, you find that while clock cycles are important, they dont really tell you anything useful... except of course when comparing units within the same architecture.

[oki101]

@Vicsun You might want to check out Hardware.no . They have adresses for amny shops in Norway where you can order parts.
Just check the section called Kjøpsguide.

I don`t know if they send to Denmark but it`s worth a try.

Me and my friends have used 2 of them. Komplett andPS Data .

Hope it helps