"But seriously, folks..." (PLEASE READ VERY CAREFULLY)

[Galuf the Dwarf]

I often have been told by MANY people that I can afford to cool my jets, so I had to talk about this. They say "Calm down!" or "Take a breather!" and "Get out to see the world". I try to stay calm and manage my mood. Still, how others around me manage their lives and attitudes is often in question. How do they do it? I'm surprised that not EVERYONE'S prescribed with something to level out their minds.


Note: The request in parenthesis is for the sake of all of you being able to understand this. I'm afraid to make you very confused unless you do read it very carefully.


Important points:
1) As most of you know, I am a very serious person, thick and thin. I do smile and like innocent jokes, but the thing is that many circumstances around me don't always afford me a lot of time to joke. I have dealt constantly with off-the-wall people over a period of 6 years, and have had my humor shot down near-endlessly in that same amount of time. Through honesty and sincerity, I made it to where I am now, but will it take me much farther otherwise?

2) One of my biggest problems is that I may tend to overprioritize my priorities, or just take up my time with them, and give myself little time to enjoy much of the outside world. I haven't had a girlfriend in 3 years, and before that, I didn't technically date the 2 I've ever had.
I often find a good video/computer game more pleasing than what I might find if I go to a social situation, convention, or function of some sort (i.e.: a mall, fair/festival, or anything like that). I don't like to take chances of dissapointment, and if the prospects of good social contact are not there, I really have trouble enjoying myself. I have friends, but I hardly get the chance (or the ambition) to go anywhere with them. In that case, they've got their developing lives, and I sorta have mine. The last time I tried to go anywhere with a friend, that arrangement felt apart as it started, this all happening about 2 months ago. Sure, I may be falling on hard times, but how long that it could last is very nerve-wracking.

3) Still, the biggest and LEAST controllable fact of all is that I am VERY different from so many other people in this world. I think and live on a different level (but NO, PEOPLE, I AM NOT HINDERED MENTALLY AS IN MENTAL DAMAGE). I am learning disabled, which has caused for much social trial and error for the 20 years that I have existed. People have trouble understanding the way I think or act and visa-versa, which most often leads to problems with me having much fun. It's also part of the reason I hold myself up by standards involving things like video games, because I understand them better than I understand people or myself, and find easier relations between them and myself.
I have overcome some hurdles that would have DEFINITELY left me to become a social hermit to this day, but the struggle is still FAR from over. College, my job, and my own psychological situation all make this a battle of (possibly) epic proportions, actions against responsibilities and the mind combined. 'Biting the bullet' is starting to become far too irritating to my tongue and to my social status.

Overall, this is not an easy situation. My social life hangs in the balance, and is teetering back and forth, closer and closer to fall from one edge. What must I do? What can I do?

[Maharlika]

... at any rate, I suggest that you try hanging out with people who share your interests.

I'm sorry but that is the most that I can think of, considering the limited knowledge that I have about your situation.

Honestly, it's difficult for some of us to find a real good solution since what would work for me may not work for you and vice versa.

Regardless, IMO, I think it would be a good idea to get that social life.

For example, I work out regularly at a fitness center where I get to release some of my angst doing machines, free wieights and aerobics classes (Body Pump and Body Combat, anyone?). At the same time, it gives me the opportunity to get to meet new people too...

... just like hanging out with people here at SYM.

[Galuf the Dwarf]

Originally Posted by Maharlika

... at any rate, I suggest that you try hanging out with people who share your interests.

I'm sorry but that is the most that I can think of, considering the limited knowledge that I have about your situation.

Honestly, it's difficult for some of us to find a real good solution since what would work for me may not work for you and vice versa.

Regardless, IMO, I think it would be a good idea to get that social life.

For example, I work out regularly at a fitness center where I get to release some of my angst doing machines, free wieights and aerobics classes (Body Pump and Body Combat, anyone?). At the same time, it gives me the opportunity to get to meet new people too...

... just like hanging out with people here at SYM.

I would have assumed you would say as much, sensei. A club of some sort may be a problem, especially since money has been tight at times, especially in the past 3 months.

[dragon wench]

I understand where you are Galuf...
While I am not learning disabled, I am actually fairly reserved in real life The result of natural shyness and having been forced to move around a lot as a child. I don't handle new social situations extremely well; if I'm invited to a party where I hardly know anyone, I'll often find a reason to decline... because I would rather remain in my comfort zone, whether that is reading a book, playing a game, hanging out on SYM, spending time with one close friend.

But you know... In the last couple of years, I have tried to force myself to attend things I would rather not be involved in, and the more I do it, the easier it becomes... I do something relaxing before attending such events, usually a long hot shower, followed by peppermint tea (peppermint tea is very soothing).. and this helps.

When it comes to just releasing emotions Mah is right, working out is incredibly therapeutic. About seven years ago, I went through a period when everything seemed to be falling apart, every time I turned around some new trauma awaited me.. working out about three times a week helped me to get through it.. immensely. If you can at all afford it, and even if you can't, this is a very worthwhile avenue to explore. Equally, some form of martial arts would be excellent, since it focuses, and calms, the mind as well as the body. Many colleges and universities offer excellent rates to students, frequently they have weight rooms, karate classes etc..

You may also want to consider writing.. fiction, poetry, journalling. I usually find that getting things down onto paper helps to put it all into perspective and allows you to see more clearly.

[Vicsun]

Others have said it, and I'll repeat it because it's true: start working out. That may build your self-confidence to a degree. Also, I know you don't drink, but you should consider starting. No, you shouldn't drown your sorrows in the bottle home alone; when you're going to a party a few beers/shots of whatever spirits they have, will loosen you up and make social interaction a lot easier. And your problem seems to be exactly that - you're too uptight.

re: having no sense of humor.
You say that through honesty and sincerity you've made it to where you are now. But you don't like where you are. So asking if it will take you further is akin to asking if it will make your situation worse.
In my opinion, the worst traits a person can have is arrogance and dullness. Out of all the people I've met, the only ones I've never been able to stand are those who are boring or arrogant. Which is why I clash with you so often, I guess - I perceive you to be both (speaking of which, am I still on your ignore list? )
I'm digressing. Having a well tuned sense of humor is, in my experience, vital to not being tedious. It's by no means the only thing that defines your character, but honesty and sincerity aren't as highly valued as you might think. For building long-lasting relationships, maybe - but when you approach someone the first thing they'll notice about you won't be yoru honesty or sincerity. I'll continue this later.

[Opalescence]

Having a sense of humor is not being able to laugh at every little thing. Mostly, having a sense of humor is the ability to laugh at oneself. If you find it impossible to laugh at yourself, then you might have a problem with social interaction. Seriously speaking, though, I think that, for the most part, in social gatherings such as parties, if nobody initiates conversation with you then you've got a real problem. If they DO initiate conversation, just "go with the flow", everything should be fine. Never, NEVER scowl or frown or otherwise give any outward appearance of wishing you were somewhere else, this is often viewed as pouting and won't get you out the door any sooner (if you're that desperate to leave, then for God's sakes LEAVE, trust me nobody will care). As for being serious, that's fine, so long as you learn to take a joke. You don't neccesarily need to laugh, but personally I find the most annoying are those people who over-react to jokes (e.g. arriving a little late, somebody jokes "heh you sure took your time. Did you go to Mars first or something?" and you reply along the vein of "I resent that implication! I was only a few minutes late, how dare you imply that I took such a long time!" This may be stretching it a bit far, as far as I know nobody would answer quite like that, but I hope you get the idea).

Just how "different" are you? For the most part, I have a very practical (some would say mean-spirited) way of thinking (e.g. I once caused my school choir to lose a competition because I told them the wrong starting time. Reason? I had a television show I wanted to watch. As far as I was concerned, practically, my own entertainment far outweighed the superficial needs of other people I didn't know).
Now, that was me, and I'm sure you can see that I'm quite different from normal people, who believe in such nonesense as morality and ethics. Nevertheless, I get along fine with the world, since I've discovered that if you hide your true thoughts behind a veil of friendliness, most people are completely blind to your true nature. Trust me this veil can become like second nature to you if you work at it. Once you've gotten it, you can go about thinking your own thoughts and nobody's the wiser. I think the problem is that you're trying to "bite the bullet" a bit too hard. Instead of suppression, just cover it with a light cover. Most everyone is eccentric in at least one way, so nobody will notice much, and you'll feel much more comfortable.

[Coot]

Eating well is about as important as working out. As a matter of fact, they stack. In general, eating lots of (different) fruits and vegetables will have a postive influence on your state of mind in the long run.

Can you give us some more information about the learning disability? Has it been diagnosed? To what extent is it giving you problems on a practical level?

[Galuf the Dwarf]

1) Well, I didn't say I was out of shape or anything like that. In fact, my job does have quite the physical demand and in the past month or so has continued to tone my body, even though I only work on Saturdays and Sundays. If I had less academic demand throughout the year, I'd likely be working out during the week. Trust me, folks, I didn't make the Dean's List two times in the row by being the dean's lapdog.

2) Unfortunately, my creative writing fizzled out about 1 or 2 years ago. I just lost the umph go through with it, especially when my job AND college came around. I lost the interest and the creativity, and so my creative writing complexed died a very crippled death.

3) Also, my college is very small, and most activities, even in the larger campus, deal with diversity and stuff that I feel I know enough about already. As I've said, money can be tight. I can afford college tuition, 4)insurance, and some extra things, but as of now, I'm close to broke. Blasted Christmas shopping...

4) I also do tend to eat considerate amounts (as in at least once a day) of fruits, vegetables, nuts and meats. I'm feeling under the impression that diet and exercise aren't the big deal here.

5) I also haven't declined to go to a whole lot of places. It's just that I really find myself not enjoying my time in a considerate amount of places. I don't scowl a lot; it's just that people don't really talk to me that much. I'll go to places in hopes to have fun, but I'm more than likely there my folks, which I am tired of, despite what may happen. WHY DOESN'T SOMEBODY UNRELATED TO ME SUCCEED IN GOING SOME PLACE WITH ME, FOR CRIMONY SAKE! (And yes, when nobody talks to me, I do get pissed.)

Besides, it's not that people really shun me, placing 10 feet or so between them and myself. People just tend to ignore me. I also don't sit around some people unless I'm invited (I will ask) or I have no choice. I'd rather not invade their privacy. I've had experiences where people didn't like my company.

6) Laughing at myself is a grey area. I've had good experiences and I've had bad experiences. I am serious because my life was forced to be serious. I can make innocent jokes to make people chuckle and I like hearing good jokes. It's just that my focus is getting the serious business done.

7) To refurbish one of my previous mentionings, I suffer from a sincere focus. Often, I can't stop doing something until it's completely done or I have to be yanked from something. It could be a part of my job (which is the 'completely done' case) or entertainment ('yanked away'). Note, though, that I do tend to reach a certain point with my games where I do stop, but it's really just a goal for the amount of time that I'm playing that I wish to reach. I can pause my game, to, say, get the mail or help with some emergency work around the house. I also tend to glue myself to certain assignments for college, ceasing to stop until I have reached my goal.

Coot: Yes, I was diagnosed with a federally recognized learning disability when I was about 11 or 12. I tend to stutter almost all of the time (except if I practice what I say for about 5 minutes) and word things in ways that do confuse some people. I also have some trouble acknowledging some social signals either coming from me or others, but trust me, I worked like a dog on this to much effect. I also tend to be in motion alot, whether it's with my hands or my legs (as in walking around), especially when I'm trying to think. Some people treat me as a basket case in this case, and some have thought that I contemplate severe malevolence (as in something like Columbine) in cases like that, though those are flash-judgements that such people tend to embarrass themselves with. For all I know, this is the BIGGEST factor of all. What I was diagnosed with is a learning disability called Aspberger Syndrome, which is somewhat related to Autism, except it is less extreme. In short, you could think of it is a very watered-down and more socially adept version of Dustin Hoffman's character in The Rain Man.

As you can all guess, finding a solution to this may take some refined thinking as we go along, like the drafts I have written for various academic papers in past, and this includes the thinking on my part. I'd love to go even more into this right now, but with the time it took to write, proof-read, and finish this, I've got to get ready for work.

[Vicsun]

I just read your reply and won't continue my previous post, as, in all sincerity, I don't think anything anyone will tell you can help you. Short of a drastic character change, there's very little that can help you.
For starters, though, you should start taking yourself, people around you and life in general less seriously. And you shouldn't use words such as crimony in real life, unless you know the person you're talking to very well and know he'll appreciate the use of nonexistent words.

[dragon wench]

I basically had the same reaction as Vicsun when I read your reply just now.... and I am also inclined to agree with his statement that you need to both lighten up and loosen up. Somebody who is perpetually uptight and largely humourless is not the type of individual most people really want to associate with. But you seem very stubborn, and less than open or flexible about considering the suggestions people have taken the time to make...

As the old cliche goes... You can lead a horse to water.. but...

You ask people to "Read Very Carefully." Fair enough, but equally.. you have to start listening more carefully. Receiving help often requires working with others.
I have a friend who for a long time would always ask my advice on her relationship problems, then she would promptly ignore everything I had said.. and often end up back at square one crying on my shoulder, with me having to resist the urge to say "I told you so." This became very draining and I eventually confronted her. I'm not so arrogant as to believe she should have followed everything I said, but it was very frustrating to go through the process time and time again. Your situation is different.. but some of the same applies.. you can't ask for help and then go blithely steamrolling over anything somebody attempts to suggest.

When I read the your first post in this thread... I felt a sense of empathy at your pain and lonliness, but your subsequent post alienated me. Perhaps you need to work more on your intersocial skills? I'm no medical professional though, so hard to know what to say if this is the case.

[Monolith]

Originally Posted by dragon wench

You can lead a horse to water.. but...

Not if the horse is tethered. I feel that the "tether" is the Asperger Syndrome, which could be cured by what you suggested: "Perhaps you need to work more on your intersocial skills?". The problem is, imo, that this is rather difficult because of the Asperger Syndrom.Well, that's how I see it.

Most of what Galuf said could be said by me. It really struck me hard when I read what he wrote. Partly it's even worse, partly it's not that bad, but the main problem seems to be the same although I've never heard of the Asperger Syndrom. After a deep google-search and Dr. Simon Baron-Cohen's Screening-Test I intend to seeing a psychologist (that's what the test-results suggested...).

Well, I always wanted to change it. I hate being uptight when I meet people I'm not familiar with but I can't change it. I'm horrible at small talk, getting to know people or getting used to people (and vice versa). I sometimes get nervous when I have to meet people I don't know or when I have to stay in a room with dozens of people. Sometimes even aggressive. When I talk to someone I don't know well then I fake him/her with friendliness which makes me uninteresting. I simply seem to have no own opinion - which is not true, but I can't get up and blast out my thoughts! When I'm with friends I'm rather direct, I always say what I think and well, with one hand over the mouth I'm still managin' to shout. When I'm with strangers I can't. But hell, what can I do to change it? I forced myself to go to parties. The result was that I hated most of the people who were there - or I just hung around with friends (who seem to be just like me). I frowned. Those who started a little chat with me didn't do it for long because I simply didn't know what to say. I can talk for hours when the topic's some theoretical and philosophical stuff, science, politics, music or sports. Well, sports and music could be a nice topic but with martial arts as my favorite form of sport and underground hip hop as the only music I really listen to (I don't know anybody who listenes to the same music as I do...in real life ) it's hard to find people who wanna chat about music or sports.

The other day I got to know that nice girl. Well, I interviewed her for the newspaper I write for. Everything would be alright if I weren't that...fake friendly. Later I called her, asked her if we could meet again or something (I don't have problems with contacting and meeting people...it's not that bad. At least if I have a good reason to do so - like interviewing them. Or trying to date them. Getting to know them is rather hard though...). Well, she said yes. I really felt great because that was the first chance in years I had to get to know a girl whom I...well...seemed to like. Finally we didn't meet. I waited for half an hour, called her two days later and all I got was "sorry" and "well, I think it's better if we don't meet...". I'm sure that this would have ended differently if I were able to show her how I really am. And that's the problem. I can't...and I really try hard to do so....that's frustrating, because I really want to change. Is this reason enough to see a psychologist? I always thought that it's "just me". Part of my personality. Just another type of personality. I accepted it. But now it looks like it's an illness or something. Thus it can be cured, can't it? Damn, I guess that's enough for one evening...sorry Galuf for using your thread for my own benefits.

[C Elegans]

Aspergers syndrome is a neuropsychiatric syndrome, which in the US is sometimes called "learning disability", even though it doesn't really influence learning skills.

One of the core features of Aspergers, is impairment in social skills. What has happened in this thread is very typical: Galuf is asking for advice, people give some advice, Galuf does not feel the advice will help him a lot, and people feel "alienated" and state he should "take himself less seriously".

Monolith is correct in pointing out that people with Aspergers are "tethered", ie it's no use to tell them they need to loosen up - the problems with Asperger are much deeper than ordinary shyness.

To most people with Aspergers, social interaction seems like something almost magic. It's something that other people seems to just recieve without effort and without doing something special, but the person with Asperger is excluded from this. It's like a world you are not allowed to enter, although other people freely go in and out of it.

To some extent it is true that social contacts are effortless to "normal" people, since social skills are so over-learned in normal people, that it does not require any thought, strategy or special effort to interact socially. For a person with Asperger however, it is often impossibleto "do the right things" in social interaction, they will frequently be viewed as impolite, uninterested, ungrateful, cold or annoying because they cannot read implicit social signals that other people take for granted, and they don't respond and behave as people expect. Also, it is very common that people with Asperger have a limited sense of humour, because much of what we call humour is based on nuances in the language and in social situations that they do not pick up. Thus, they will often come across as stiff.

A very typical problem is how to start out a relationship/friendship. A person with Asperger may never notice that somebody is interested in them, unless that person more or less abduct them and drag them home. Other people may think it is bloody obvious, but a person with Asperger often do not understand things that are explicitly outspoken. The opposite also happens often - they will not understand when people are not interested, until the other person is really rude. Timing in social contacts is often a mystery. When do you know someone well enough to ask them out? To visit them? To hug them? To try to kiss them? "When it feels right" is an answer most people with Asperger do not understand, because they don't feel when it's right. They have an impairment in the response system that interpret other people's thoughts, feelings and intentions. This response system is called "theory of mind" or "mentalising", and this is exactly what people with Asperger have most difficulties with.

@Galuf: I will try to comment on what you have written, and I agree with you that excercise and diet is not your problem. Having Aspergers and living in a socially limited environment is what I view as your problem.

Originally Posted by Galuf the Dwarf

5) I also haven't declined to go to a whole lot of places. It's just that I really find myself not enjoying my time in a considerate amount of places. I don't scowl a lot; it's just that people don't really talk to me that much. I'll go to places in hopes to have fun, but I'm more than likely there my folks, which I am tired of, despite what may happen. WHY DOESN'T SOMEBODY UNRELATED TO ME SUCCEED IN GOING SOME PLACE WITH ME, FOR CRIMONY SAKE! (And yes, when nobody talks to me, I do get pissed.)

Besides, it's not that people really shun me, placing 10 feet or so between them and myself. People just tend to ignore me.

You have to understand that people in general seldom talk a lot to people they don't know, and that people in general ignore most other people. You cannot expect or demand that other people should notice you (or anyone else), speak to you, take contact with you etc, without you doing something special. You cannot go out and get angry at people because they don't talk to you - taking social contacts is not an obligation other people have towards you, they are not there to entertain you or make you feel comfortable, you yourself must make sure you get those things by acting in certain ways.

You must learn to take initiative to social interaction. This is very difficult for most people who have Aspergers. It usually requires a lot of practise, trial and error. Going up to a stranger and starting a conversation about something meaningless just to start talking, is not so easy. But it is important that you start taking initiative. You should not wait for other people to take contact with you, instead, go up to people and start a conversation about something meaningless. People usually don't like to start serious or personal dicussions with somebody they don't know, so you must start with something superficial. Also, most people like to talk about themselves and feel they get attention, so it's a good idea to ask questions about them. Meaningless smalltalk like "it's busy here tonight", "what do you think about the music?", blahblah is suitable to start with, then if the person is interested in talking to you, you can start asking things about them like what is their job/what they study, what they think about their job/studies, what kind of music they like, what books they read, what hobbies they have, etc. Don't talk a lot about yourself, but try to draw parallells between your and the other persons experiences. It helps people feel they have something in common with you.

6) Laughing at myself is a grey area. I've had good experiences and I've had bad experiences. I am serious because my life was forced to be serious. I can make innocent jokes to make people chuckle and I like hearing good jokes. It's just that my focus is getting the serious business done.

I don't think it's very important that you increase you ability to laugh at yourself. What I do think is more important is that you try to view yourself from a meta-perspective, as to understand better what impression you make on other people. Pretend you are looking at yourself as if it was a movie, and analyse your behaviour. Also, remember that most social interaction is actually meaningless and has no special intention or goal. That's one of the difficult things with social interaction. People just enjoy it without having any goals with it. It has a value in itself. There are no business to be done, it's just a never ending process without goal, it's like when children play a game.

@Monolith: Aspergers cannot be cured. It's part of your personality and will always be. A psychologist can help you cope better with it, and can help teach you how to show your genuine personality better than you perhaps do today. With training, a person with Aspergers can become free from Asperger-related problems, but there is no cure in the sense that it will go away, the only thing one can do is to learn how to compensate for it so that it does not lead to unwished and negative consequences.

[Galuf the Dwarf]

I think CE and Monolith are both really hitting the target.

I do initiate conversations. It's just that I am often hesitate, since I really don't know what to expect. Last weekened, somebody asked what I was doing/thinking when I paced back and forth, they icommenting further that they thought I looked like I was seriously contemplating murder or some such. Such impressions almost left me devestated in private. It was like I fear back in high school, where people had me fearing that they feared me of becoming something similar to Columbine (which some people did back then, trust me).

My concern is not only about what shyness I may have, but the impression that I leave. My sincerity and (at times) edginess does rub a number of people the wrong way. I have made many admirers and friends, but at times, those relationships can be made a bit more shaky than most people. It's a brave new world nowadays.

Like CE said, social interactions can lead to "a world you are not allowed to enter, although other people freely go in and out of it." When it comes to understanding people's interest in deeper social interaction, I often do wish they'd take action to make me realize it, and not get fed up. I'd be surprised if there's a young woman with her head on straight that wouldn't mind "abducting me and dragging me home." It's really been a part of the romantic situations that I've discusses with CE and Brynn.

Timing in social contacts is often a mystery. When do you know someone well enough to ask them out? To visit them? To hug them? To try to kiss them? "When it feels right" is an answer most people with Asperger do not understand, because they don't feel when it's right. They have an impairment in the response system that interpret other people's thoughts, feelings and intentions. This response system is called "theory of mind" or "mentalising", and this is exactly what people with Asperger have most difficulties with.

Lady, I wished EVERYONE in this world knew this. It would make things a heck of a lot easier. I may have not have gotten in any trouble with this as I did in high school, but trust me, it's as if somebody REALLY needs to make things practically written on a bulletin board. I had no problem understanding that people don't really talk to who they don't know, but do I really need to be passed off as a creep or something. Sure, people talk to me, but the people who talked to me the most are often people I could possibly do without (i.e.: people who may be creepy in their own right).

[Brynn]

Huh.. This page was way to long to read so I only read the very first post.

The first thing I noticed was that you are actually telling yourself how very different you are from others. (I assure you, everybody feels the same way around 18-20). How about trying to approach this form the oppostie direction - recognizing the similarities between you and the people around you?

Btw, I see no harm in being serious and distant - if this attitude fits you most, follow this, no problem. But choosing games over "real" company is sg that should be treated carefully, I say (which you probably know very well). You shouldn't feel more comfortable in the Realms than in real life!

[Brynn]

Read CE's post. Galuf, do you accept that as a correct diagnosis? In that case, I don't think I could say anything that would make a difference any further... What I really don't understand is that how nobody around you realizes that? I mean your family, or closest friends... I have a friend who's a bit like you in this field (don't know if this Asperger thing apllies to him or not, but he definitely lacks the ability to seek and enjoy good company, and I'm sure he considers himself different from "average", too). So, with this friend of mine, I'm always initiative and persuasive, I'm trying to get him come if he's hesitating, and I know it's not too much, but at least I always check on him on MSN (daily). B/c I know he's like that, he needs to be called twice before he agrees. I like him the way he is, even if he's usually not the leader of conversation and hasn't got the most brilliant sense of humour...

What I'm trying to say is that there should be people around you who accept you the way you are (which is abolsutely OK, imho, even if you're more serious than others).