Are we going to war?

[RandomThug]

Or rather when? My question is what is your opinion on the timing of war. When or if, not why or how.

I personally believe we will engage in a full blown war before summer. And it will last a weekend. Anyone else got idea's...

Here is a nice link to follow..

Reasons for waR?

[fable]

Won't last a weekend, if we do. We'll be handing out leaflets to every young, frustrated, dirt poor MidEastern youth with messages reading "Go fight the Great Satan who wants our oil!" if we go to Iraq. And we'll be paying the costs of that equipment-driven war for more than ten years, afterwards.

[Tybaltus]

Hmmm...shouldnt we be fighting a war vs terrorism, instead? I mean, we're already in the middle of something. I think the timing is just really bad. I dont know what Bush is thinking, or rather what he is not thinking, because he seems to be doing a nice job sending this country down the crapper.

He's just sending our troops in every which way, we no longer know where we're going or who we're fighting. At this rate, we wont have an army in the US...theyll be too busy in all the foriegn countries trying to "keep the peace" by holding up a bunch of weapons.

I mean, am I the only one who finds that slightly un-nerving?

This war will happen, only because Bush has a one track mind of sorts and he's going to take us where ever his brain wants us to. And whether we win the war or not and how quickly is beside the point. There are no winners in war...rather there is just a side that didnt suffer defeat as much as the other side did.

[RandomThug]

I knew I'd bait you out with this, you've been hiding from the boards (posting with me) cause its all been trivial spam. Now seriusly though I know the effects of such war would last for many years, let alone if we end up going after one of many others who are arming up to challenge us before we find safety with the effects of the Iraq war.

My question is, rather than an opinionated well.. opinion, give me a time sheet. Just out of curiosity. You think Bush will go in soon, who will help and how long before we get what we want.

This includes if we go in and take territory.

[Tybaltus]

Quote:

Originally posted by RandomThug My question is, rather than an opinionated well.. opinion, give me a time sheet. Just out of curiosity. You think Bush will go in soon, who will help and how long before we get what we want.

Well over confidence kills you in the end. And the Americans are too over confident. We are not invincible, and the war may take much longer then we all think. People thought WWI would last a couple weeks. Right. Its impossible to predict what will happen in war, and I stick by that.

But...Ill tell you, this war will take longer then we think. Who will help? Probably England, and whoever is enemy with Saddham. But thats it, because everyone hates the USA right now. I mean come on. We sticking our noses where it doesnt belong. If I were another country, Id hate us too.

How long till we get what we want? I have no idea what "we" want.

[Kameleon]

Oh yeah. You're going to war, and we're following right along behind. Tony Blair is pretty much the only person in the country (including his party) that takes Bush seriously, and his place in office is jeopardised by it. However he still makes the decisions, so we'll be backing you up, for good or bad. But as for the war taking a weekend? That's what Nixon said about Vietnam...

[dragon wench]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kameleon But as for the war taking a weekend? That's what Nixon said about Vietnam...

Indeed... and in WW2 it was..."home before Christmas"

though, unlike WW1 and this present situation.. I do think there were some very real reasons for WW2......

[Tybaltus]

Quote:

Originally posted by dragon wench Indeed... and in WW2 it was..."home before Christmas"

So thats 3 examples.

WWI, Vietnam, and WW2. Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it.

And again...over confidence...VERY VERY BAD. To say the least.

[fable]

Quote:

Originally posted by RandomThug I knew I'd bait you out with this, you've been hiding from the boards (posting with me) cause its all been trivial spam.

Eat dirt and molder, child of the soil!

My question is, rather than an opinionated well.. opinion, give me a time sheet. Just out of curiosity. You think Bush will go in soon, who will help and how long before we get what we want.

This includes if we go in and take territory.

It's a no-brainer that Bush's buttmon...er, international colleague, Blair, will join him in this. Israel, of course. Hungary has promised to provide training grounds for the power hungry Iraqi troops who are going to take Iraq back from the power hungry Iraqi troops that are already there. Among the big potential allies, I really think a lot hinges on what Hussein does, and whatever else the inspectors find.

Not to mention, there's always NK in the background, far more dangerous, paranoid, and perfectly willing to go to war if they feel threatened. It would appear they take threats a lot less well than just about everyone else in the world.

If a war starts, I don't see it taking more than a week to two weeks to finish in a classic sense. But then you have the Kurds who will want a nation in the north, and the Shias in the south who will also want a separate nation; Turkey ready to invade if the Kurds go for it, Iran ready to invade if Turkey does (and they've said so, too). Plus there's all the fallout from it, which I alluded to, above...

No, I'm genuinely of the opinion that we'll have mired ourselves so deep in terrorist attempts from this that we'll simply move the war to another level, where it will continue for many years. Not to mention the curbs on American freedoms--a war nobody seems to have begun to realize has already been lost.

[RandomThug]

While Its all fine and dandy to dislike bush's policy of going in, and to figure that its going to be longer than a weekend.

I doubt were sticking our noses in other peoples business, nor has most of the world ever really "liked" America. Tyb's points have been around for longer then this new American trend. And not only were we assigned big brother duty after ww2, we were and are hated because of it. Yet they all want us too.

I believe it will last, as long or a little bit longer then the last war. And thats the actuall Boom Boom bang bang, not the politics.

[Yshania]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kameleon Oh yeah. You're going to war, and we're following right along behind. Tony Blair is pretty much the only person in the country (including his party) that takes Bush seriously, and his place in office is jeopardised by it. However he still makes the decisions, so we'll be backing you up, for good or bad. But as for the war taking a weekend? That's what Nixon said about Vietnam...

Yet the cabinet remains split over the decision that will override UN advice/directives.

What with Afghanistan, Korea, Iraq....will we bite off more than we can chew?

[Kameleon]

Hehehe buttmon..er

@Ysh - it really looks like we're being dragged down the toilet right behind the US. Sorry to sound so pessimistic, but there it is

[fable]

Quote:

Originally posted by RandomThug I doubt were sticking our noses in other peoples business, nor has most of the world ever really "liked" America.

Actually, we were well-liked in the Islamic world before the 1950s. And we were well-liked again after we jumped to the aid of Kuwait, in the early 1990s. Going to war against somebody for no reason and inviting the wrath of their friends does seem to me to be sticking one's nose in the business of others, with attendant consequences. As all history shows.

[Gwalchmai]

If we go to war (assuming that Bush isn't just trying to bluff a little regime change into the region), then it will be 'declared' over with a few weeks of starting. If it drags on for one reason or another, it will certainly be ended (whether regime change has occured or not) before the election in 2004.

[Scayde]

While I myself would love nothing more than to be totally isolationist ie: every man/woman/child/country for them selves, I do feel the world looks to the stronger nations (US and the NATO allies) to police the smaller rogue states. I think the US and her ally do a difficult and thankless job every time we rise to the task set before us.

I notice W.W.II has been mentioned more than a few times. It is interesting that in those days the US was highly ridiculed of not stepping in to "other peoples business" We did not enter the war officially until it had become personal. At the time we still held to separatist policies and remained very aloof through out the early stages of the war. I have heard more than one academic rail that had the US gotten involved sooner that the holocaust could have been avoided.

Hey folks..this is a man who is killing his own citizens who he considers ethnically inferior. Does this not ring a bell for anyone?

I am proud of Bush for stepping up to the plate....
and BRAVO Mr. Blair for standing with him.


As far how long it takes? I agree with fable. It will be a fast trip down a very long road which may never see the destination fully realized. I am not sure war is the right answer. I am never sure that it is...but as no one else seems to be able to put forth a better idea..this one (if it comes to pass) has my backing...