Ann Aroexia and her many friends (no spam)

[fable]

I'm in Budapest. Fourth time in 13 years. My wife and I really love the city. One ominous sign I've noticed, however, is that for the first time there are at least some teens and twenties women showing up who are all skin, makeup and bones, tight hip huggers that reveal nothing to show the difference between fore and aft. I'm not really joking about this, either. It's new to Budapest, where the women have been a wonderful repose to these eyes over the years, sentimental slob that I am.

You might think, huh, here's Fable in a place filled with cultural entertainment of the highest order, and all he can do is post about women who have no T&A to display? To which I can but reply, in my cooly logical fashion celebrated the world over, Sez you. Actually, we have got tickets to 6 classical concerts (though we missed some great folk ones by several weeks), and the architecture is fantastic. But I've never gotten tired of the female view anywhere in the world, provided there's anything to look at. And it can't be denied that the modeling business with its huge multimedia exposure has a great impact on how growing girls see themselves. Just last night the BBC did a short piece about Madrid's fashion business establishing and enforcing standards for girls/women in the profession--and roughly one-third those that have been employed by advertising agencies are now temporarily without jobs, pending their putting on some weight.

Do you think anaroexia and other psychologically endorsed eating disorders are becoming a problem in Western-influenced culture, thanks to models? What have been your experiences about this? Note the no spam designation, above. Please keep your cmoments pertinent to this subject, and please add 'em, here.

[Philos]

The cultures that are greatly influenced by fashion certainly seem to have a very disturbing trend towards Ann & her friends. Changes within a culture reflect this too. For example take Russia, prior to the end of the cold war when it was the USSR, a very common image for a Russian woman was large, (not fat necessarily) just big and robust. Now, after the break up and the massive influx of western culture filling the vacuum in their culture, I see a lot a pictures of Russian women and they look like they have been released from a concentration camp in WW2. May just be perception, but I think there is definitely a link.

[Chimaera182]

Haven't anorexia and other eating disorders already been classified as a problem in Western cultures? In the U.S., it's certainly been a problem. You know, I was out with a friend of mine on Tuesday who said her co-workers told her that the skirt she was wearing that night made her look thinner than usual (and she's already bone-freaking thin). She modelled it for me and I said she looked "normal" in it, and that was a class one insult to her, and to our other female friend who came and joined us later. Frankly, from now on if a girl asks my opinion I'm just going to say they look anorexically thin, and if they object, I'll tell them that's exactly what they wanted to hear, only in harsher terms. And I know I'm affected by this stuff because I tend to feel the tug of anorexia; fortunately, the tug of binge-eating has always been stronger (no, no purging is involved). But because I don't feel like I belong in an Abercrombie and Fitch catalog (which even conjuring that up in my mind is insult alone, because I hate that store beyond all measure), it takes extreme effort to get me out of the house, let alone to date.

Western culture--what I've noticed in the U.S. at least--promotes impossible standards of beauty, and because people think it is possible, it makes people force themselves to become that beautiful.

[fable]

Originally Posted by Chimaera182

Haven't anorexia and other eating disorders already been classified as a problem in Western cultures? In the U.S., it's certainly been a problem. You know, I was out with a friend of mine on Tuesday who said her co-workers told her that the skirt she was wearing that night made her look thinner than usual (and she's already bone-freaking thin). She modelled it for me and I said she looked "normal" in it, and that was a class one insult to her, and to our other female friend who came and joined us later. Frankly, from now on if a girl asks my opinion I'm just going to say they look anorexically thin, and if they object, I'll tell them that's exactly what they wanted to hear, only in harsher terms. And I know I'm affected by this stuff because I tend to feel the tug of anorexia; fortunately, the tug of binge-eating has always been stronger (no, no purging is involved). But because I don't feel like I belong in an Abercrombie and Fitch catalog (which even conjuring that up in my mind is insult alone, because I hate that store beyond all measure), it takes extreme effort to get me out of the house, let alone to date.

Western culture--what I've noticed in the U.S. at least--promotes impossible standards of beauty, and because people think it is possible, it makes people force themselves to become that beautiful.

I really am at a loss to understand why designers have chosen to focus exclusively on anaroexic models. One would think that emphasizing a variety of styles suitable to different physiques and weight ranges would actually open up the market more; but designers seem to be resisting this. An interviewed representative of the clothing designer industry in the UK just stated a couple of days ago that they are simply responding with their ultra-thin styles to the desires of the public--which is ridiculous on the face of it, and hypocritical in an industry that has always prided itself on being able to sell anything with a decent marketing campaign.

She also pointed out somewhat smugly that the Spanish effort to eliminate anaroexic models won't work in the UK, since the British government doesn't subsidize the fashion industry, which it does in Spain. The catwalk images being shown over the interview were in themselves condemnation enough: women who would have passed for concentration camp inmates just liberated, given he sharp delineation of bones and absence of muscle tone on all the revealed figures. It was repulsive to watch, frankly.

[Chimaera182]

And that's really the point, too. I know with my penchant for WW2 and Nazi Germany knowledge, I would very quickly use the reference to a concentration camp victim in my comparison to girls who try to look anorexically thin. Of course, that would also be bad considering that the girl who modelled her skirt on the night I referenced is herself Jewish. It would be bad form to do that, but it's really the image that is being cultivated in high fashion. This notion that being thin is the only way to beauty... It's destructive both physically and emotionally. It undermines who people are and makes them feel insignificant if they don't conform to a certain ideal--and impractical--image.

I don't even like fashion shows, or fashion for that matter. I believe in dressing plainly (for everyone). And I've never been the biggest fan of conformity, either. My disgust with Abercrombie & Fitch itself stems from both of these points (and also because they are seriously an open bar and poppers away from being a gay club) and I always think of Mad TV's rendition of A&F (which is sad but very much realistic in several ways). A latino friend of mine was with some friends and they went in one several months back, and he told me he felt "too dark" to belong. When the friend who showed me her skirt brought me in an A&F a couple months back, I felt very out of place, disgusted, and wanted more than anything to get out because I felt I didn't belong. She picked up a Polo shirt and held it up to herself, and I could tell I couldn't have fit in that thing even when I was 7 (and I was a rather thin and highly active child). I'd rather hope people would break free from this model that is put before them, but more often than not they succumb to it. I don't know whether to feel sorry for them but mostly I just feel a little disgusted.

[Luis Antonio]

Originally Posted by fable

Do you think anaroexia and other psychologically endorsed eating disorders are becoming a problem in Western-influenced culture, thanks to models? What have been your experiences about this? Note the no spam designation, above. Please keep your cmoments pertinent to this subject, and please add 'em, here.

Yes I do think that it is related to some of the things models do.

Here, where I live, (aka, the lower wastes of America, may the Goddess bless us) it is more pressure from the parents who want to see their children growing within the current beauty pattern on the models mettier and also in the streets (slim girls, who go to the gym for wheight loss, not for health improving). So, i think it is because the ugly generation (coca cola gen) is attempting to transform their children (internet I pod generation) into mirrors of what they could have been.

I personally find it disgusting that girls attempt to be slim all the time. My gf has gained wheight and now controls it, but I can assure you: she's better with a bit more wheight than without it. Women need... meat, you know?

[Magrus]

I find it disturbing. I get disgusted when I hear a girl who is 5'4" and 120 lbs say she is fat and refuses to eat because of it. Why? They are subjected to a barrage of women on magazines and in movies who make millions of dollars to look like a bleach blonde bean pole.

[C Elegans]

Originally Posted by fable

One ominous sign I've noticed, however, is that for the first time there are at least some teens and twenties women showing up who are all skin, makeup and bones, tight hip huggers that reveal nothing to show the difference between fore and aft.
<snip>
Do you think anaroexia and other psychologically endorsed eating disorders are becoming a problem in Western-influenced culture, thanks to models?

The same as you describe about Budapest, I have noticed elsewhere in the world, most prominentely among the middle class women the Chinese cities when I was travelleling around in China 2 years ago. Western culture sets the norms for the rest of the world. Western popular media propagates these norms. Since the 1920's, it's been a sign of wealth to be very skinny, and during the 1960's these ideals were reinforced even more. In the 1980's, where the "super-models" did their entrance, the very extreme skinniness became the "normal" beauty ideal.

Anorexia nervosa, commonly called just "anorexia" is classified as a psychiatric disorder. There are other related disorders as well, mainly bulimia, binge eating disorder and body dysmorphic disorder. I don't have the DSM-IV manual handy right now since I just came home, but the prevalence among women in the Western world is around 1-2% for anorexia and 2-4% for bulimia. It should be noted that the full blown clinical syndromes have very strict critera - at subclinical level, if you look at unhealty levels of "anorectic attitudes", the prevalance has been reported to be between 60-95% among Western women!

It is well documented in clinical research that eating disorders have increased over the last 30 years. What increases is not mainly the very severe cases who starve themselves to death, but the mild and moderate cases, the and "incomplete clinical cases" (ie patients are unhealthy but do not fulfil all critera for diagnosis) and the subclinical cases (ie the person is not in need of healthcare but is definitely not healthy).

Looking at what causes eating disorders, there was a conclusive study performed a few years ago, you can read it here, I think it's free:
http://bjp.rcpsych.org.proxy.kib.ki....full/180/6/509
It's a good article in a high quality journal, so please read it

If you are too lazy for that, there is a pop version and an interview with one of the researchers here at BBC:
BBC News | Health | 'TV brings eating disorders to Fiji'

And if you are even to lazy for that, the summary of the findings is that they did a prospective study in Fiji, starting before the introduction of Western TV. At the time, eating disorders were virtually unknown in Fiji and the female beauty ideal was well rounded. 3 years after the introduction of Western TV, they did a new measurement, and found that over 70% of the girls who participated in the study had altered their body image and now felt "too big" or "too fat".

[Chimaera182]

Originally Posted by C Elegans

...Since the 1920's, it's been a sign of wealth to be very skinny, and during the 1960's these ideals were reinforced even more. In the 1980's, where the "super-models" did their entrance, the very extreme skinniness became the "normal" beauty ideal.

...

And if you are even to lazy for that, the summary of the findings is that they did a prospective study in Fiji, starting before the introduction of Western TV. At the time, eating disorders were virtually unknown in Fiji and the female beauty ideal was well rounded. 3 years after the introduction of Western TV, they did a new measurement, and found that over 70% of the girls who participated in the study had altered their body image and now felt "too big" or "too fat".

It's funny, but I would have thought that, even in the 1920s, a sign of wealth would have been to be more heavyset. After all, a heavyset man or woman is someone who could afford to eat what they wanted when they wanted to, and didn't indulge in the usual workload that would cause them to use up the energy their bodies glean from food. I would never have guessed being very skinny (back then) was a sign of wealth. Of course it's obvious why that could be the case now; after all, healthy foods, from what I've gathered, tend to run at higher prices than unhealthy foods. Anyone who can afford to buy health foods and also be able to afford a gym membership and go regularly, that's got to be a sign of having money. Just more of those status symbols people like to invest in to appear richer than they really are.

Eegad. 70%... Why couldn't Eastern culture and the ideal of someone's beauty lying in someone who was more fleshed out have creeped over this way instead? Or even--dear god help us all--the idea that beauty isn't even so important as to determine who was truly 'attractive'?

[fable]

Looks like London's socialist mayor (and neat guy) Ken Livingstone is seeking to expand the Spanish initiative. Check this out.

[Galuf the Dwarf]

fable brings up a good point. Women's body image is starting to become a problem.

Honestly, I must confess. I prefer fuller-figured women, partly on the boundaries of the woman's own health. I'd prefer a woman not torture herself to look good by modern standards. Now, if they must manage their weight to keep themselves on the safe side (avoid obesity, diet-related health ailments, etc.), I'm cool with that. If it's to "make them look beautiful" (like these women that fable was talking about), I find that repulsive.

Sometimes, I look at the images of some of these overly thin women, and it really makes me sick. It does not look natural, like real women.

[Chimaera182]

Originally Posted by Chimaera182

It's funny, but I would have thought that, even in the 1920s, a sign of wealth would have been to be more heavyset. After all, a heavyset man or woman is someone who could afford to eat what they wanted when they wanted to, and didn't indulge in the usual workload that would cause them to use up the energy their bodies glean from food.

Well, going back on this--I meant to search for this last week--we started reading "As I Lay Dying" by Faulkner, and our teacher gave us some background information. Word is, in the South, in the time that this story was set (this is a class where all our readings take place in between the two World Wars, so you can figure it's 1920s, just like I originally said), people who were overweight tended to be wealthier! Hah! -does his victory dance- Dr. Peabody, in the story, was a gluttonous, overweight, sometimes sensitive man, but the main point is that he was rich. Being overweight was the status symbol of someone who had money.