Aint it supposed to be a belief/habit? (no spam, no flaming either plz)

[Luis Antonio]

I'm a bit scared about the way a few religious/behavior threads have been going into preaching and atacks here on SYM lately.

My point is:

Damn, cant a christian and a jew and a muslim and a wiccan and a satan worshipper and a cientologist live without try messing up with each other?

There are nice ways to spread what you think, and your oppinions. I dont want no one rubbing a bible on my face, nor trying to convert me by poking me with a stick yelling "I know the truth".

Its about respect with each other, guys, about telling your opinions and not poking each other with the stick of intolerance, or at least when you hurt someones faith or feelings to apologize or to do not place more wood/gasoline into the fire.

So why is that? Why is everyone throwing grenades at each other? Why not accept we are different?

[VonDondu]

Originally Posted by Luis Antonio

Its about respect with each other, guys...

Why is everyone throwing grenades at each other? Why not accept we are different?

With all due respect, you are stating a point of view that you expect everyone else to accept without question. Perhaps you ought to explain why everyone should respect other people regardless of their beliefs.

To answer your question, disciples of one faith are bound to come into conflict with disciples of an opposing faith. I mean, really, a devout Christian and a devout Satanist getting along with each other? That's expecting quite a lot from them, considering the fact that their respective deities hate each other.

I would like to live in a civil world in which I could take peace for granted, but as long as people have opposing beliefs, I don't expect the world to be free of intolerance, flames, and violence.

[arno_v]

I think the core of this problem is that some religions exclude others. So if you belief in one specific religion you can't accept people who belief in something else. Religion is the cause of much problems, many wars were started because two religions rival eachother. I mean, crusades, the war between Huttus and Tutsis, war on terrorisme. This all is caused by religion.

I hope religous people will show some respect to people from another religion. Like LA said, apologize instead of throwing gazoline on the fire. If they do they will make the world (and SYM) alot better.

[dragon wench]

I know I'm an idealist in this regard, but I will respect another person's beliefs as long as they respect mine. People don't always agree on various points, but that doesn't mean they have to savagely attack one another IMO. Of course as Von Dondu says, a fundamentalist Christian and ardent Satanist will naturally come to blows, it is inevitable, and these types of conflicts happen far too often everywhere, on both a micro and macro scale.

I do think.... much more tolerance and respect are needed generally, amongst athiests and agnostics as well as those who practice a particular faith. Unfortunately however, there are far too many people who insist that their chosen path is the only true one.

[Dottie]

Perhaps I appear to be disrespectful at times, I dont know. But I honestly think not all opinions deserve respect either. I can respect someones opinion as long as it is not very harmful, but beyond that I can not. So for example I would not find the idea of preaching against the use of condoms in HIV dense nations to be worthy of respect. And I dont see why I should.

[jopperm2]

I can respect opinions that are supported well, Maybe not agree but respect. So if a person said condoms should not be used in HIV ridden areas becasue God proclaims condoms should not be used, I would respect that. I don't agree with it, but I don't disrespect it.

[Yeltsu]

I cannot respect people who follows the no condom thing because they say that god forbids it. I just think it is incredibly naive to believe that, if there was a god, wouldn't he be too busy to care whether people used condoms or not?

I think that people who feel that they are more important than others b/c they follow some religion are just silly. I was once on a vacation in Italy and we were taking a boat to some island, when suddenly a whole bunch of nuns captured every single chair on deck without even a "please," they all put their feet up, and obviously felt that we should bow our heads and be grateful that they didn't smite us in the process.

I respect those religions that doesn't impose their belief on everybody else, in particular Buddhism.

[Dottie]

Originally Posted by jopperm2

I can respect opinions that are supported well, Maybe not agree but respect. So if a person said condoms should not be used in HIV ridden areas becasue God proclaims condoms should not be used, I would respect that. I don't agree with it, but I don't disrespect it.

I agree somewhat about the first statement, support does figure into it as well. I disagree that "Because God say so" is an argument more valid than because I said so. Both these arguments support themselfs exclusively on that persons subjective feelings, wich can hardly be considered good support imo.

[dragon wench]

Originally Posted by Dottie

But I honestly think not all opinions deserve respect either. I can respect someones opinion as long as it is not very harmful, but beyond that I can not. So for example I would not find the idea of preaching against the use of condoms in HIV dense nations to be worthy of respect. And I dont see why I should.

I do know what you mean and I wrestle with similar issues. I guess what it really boils down to is that I respect something as long as it does not inflict harm... Of course... there lies the difficulty sometimes.. since often people disagree on what engenders harm.

Also, how far can you respect a culture and not seem ethnocentric, while at the same time recognising that it may carry out harmful practices?


Aach.. *sigh*

[CM]

Honestly I dont see a problem. This isnt like when Sailor Saturn and Waverly were going at it on Christainity. Not to mention other people around like eninem or however you spell it.

The older group of SYM is a strong knit community, we can deal with religious discussions. However one thing i must state forcefully is that vets should not automatically think someone states something with a view to insult or ridicule. Give them the benefit of the doubt.

Dark raven is a perfect example, in the thread started by corsair. Btw corsair is an excellent example of a person SYM included after what happened. It was because a respectful atmosphere was maintained.

Plus if SYM can deal with me and my fundo Muslim attitude, we got nothing to worry about. IF i get banned you lot are gonna go to hell i am telling you all

[Moonbiter]

Ever since Bill & Ted stated my own "religion", I don't feel that it's much of an issue who's wrong or who's right. Hey! I may disagree with most every attitude and statement presented here, or within my admittedly limited peronal sphere of influence, but as I've grown older, it's my own reactions that sets my own standards. "Do Unto Others" ain't really all that hard when you've sort of grown out of the anger and besserwisser attitude that comes along with the hormones. That little statement also includes religion, but sadly, since we're such emotional creatures, you'n me, and so afraid of not existing, we're sort of stuck in a rut where details makes reasons for endless strife. I have, being human, a temper that gets the better of me way too often, and a truckload of opinions and knowledge that I'm way too undiciplined to prevent from detonating in the face of another person when I'm, according to me, challenged. I'm working on it, and I hope/think I'm making progress. Humanity is sadly flawed that way. I was born a firecracker, and I'm not through launching ships that's gonna be torpedoed five meters out of the dock, but as I'm sinking, I would would like to think that the torpedoes are made up of something better than dynamite.

[Chanak]

Originally Posted by CM

Plus if SYM can deal with me and my fundo Muslim attitude, we got nothing to worry about. IF i get banned you lot are gonna go to hell i am telling you all

See you there.

I've pretty much accepted the fact that people may not necessarily share views similar to mine. I'll agree with Dottie that as long as someone else's views aren't harmful, I have no problem respecting them. A person's actions speak quite loudly as well - what they do is more important than what they say.

[Maharlika]

...coz frankly, Luis, I don't see anything at SYM that would cause me much concern as regard to the issue of religious intolerance/indifference.

If such was the case, the mods would have been deluged with pm's or email alerts of forum violations. http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/...oticons6/3.gif

I'm Catholic and a firm believer of the Faith yet somehow I never got annoyed nor offended (well at least, not recently) with anyone who would post about their take on religion especially if I don't share their views.

The only time that I got really offended was when this member (now banned) posted a link that was making fun out of Christ on the Cross. http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/...ticons6/14.gif

I think most of the SYMians here would likely say, "I beg to disagree." rather than "You are wrong."

Chanak said it right when he mentioned that what people do are much more important than what they say.

I have heard a lot of true stories about priests and nuns who would display the kind of behavior that is so unbecoming of their vocation...

...and yet I see these as flaws of the people themselves rather than the Faith that I believe in.

[giles337]

I agree with Mah. Most seasoned SYMers are not the problem. Mainly it is new members coming to SYM, not prepared for the attitude of this forum. This said, there are som new members who have been fine.

I do belive, and im sure D_E_N will not mind me pointing him out as a prime example of this; that in time, most members improve and adapt.

Or do you disagree?

[Luis Antonio]

Originally Posted by Von Dondu

With all due respect, you are stating a point of view that you expect everyone else to accept without question. Perhaps you ought to explain why everyone should respect other people regardless of their beliefs.

OK, respect taken... I guess everyone should respect people regardless of believes because the only thing we are completely certain is that we all die. And we are a species. Even though it is appealing to someone who believe to tell the truth is is, it doesnt give him the right to tell that someone is wrong by believe otherwise and that, for example, you'll burn in hell for not believing as I do.

Sample: I do not mean idol worship as statues and pictures, i mean as worship of a false god.
Why the other people God is a false god? Its about faith, belief, not about truth. It is agressive, since it despise the other part belief. Has a chatholic the right to tell a jew that his god does not exist? It is offensive.

Originally Posted by Arno

Like LA said, apologize instead of throwing gazoline on the fire. If they do they will make the world (and SYM) alot better.

Yes, Arno has just seen where I want to go. Thats not about avoiding posting your opinions about religion, is that some opinions have been placed on so drastically that they make the environment very dangerous, making people to fight with unconclusive argument.
Is there any proof other than the faith you have in your religion that shows who is right or wrong? Damn, I follow no religion, I may rot in hell - or not, perhaps I'll only die and the miracle that garthered my body will just vanish after the worms digest me. But I admit that I may rot in hell, I may be wrong.

Originally Posted by DW

a fundamentalist Christian and ardent Satanist

Yes, I agree that the tensions will run high and I've been naive in a few of the "churches" I've placed there. But since all churches there except for the Satanist believe that they are the "good" side why do their flock fight each other instead of keep things cool and run the world through cooperation? Or have they turned on a corporate business? I dont believe so. But I cant see the followers of those churches cooperating, as if that was a game, where one side wins always.

Originally Posted by Dottie

I can respect someones opinion as long as it is not very harmful, but beyond that I can not. So for example I would not find the idea of preaching against the use of condoms in HIV dense nations to be worthy of respect.

Originally Posted by Jopperm

So if a person said condoms should not be used in HIV ridden areas becasue God proclaims condoms should not be used, I would respect that. I don't agree with it, but I don't disrespect it.

Yes, I agree with you Jopperm... Even though I also partially agree with Dottie. You dont need to agree or say you are right about something, but please, the other religion dont need to be impaled, only tolerated.
Its all about tolerance. Like this:

Actually, I am a believer, and have been a Wiccan witch for twenty-seven years. You are an unbeliever. Do you begin to see a pattern forming, here?
It says that even though you dont believe what you do I wont try to judge you. Simple and efficient way to avoid intolerance.

Originally Posted by Mah

I think most of the SYMians here would likely say, "I beg to disagree." rather than "You are wrong."

I agree with you concerning the older generation of Symiers... But I guess sometimes even when trying to be neutral or fair they end up with intolerance. I guess perhaps my own thread may be considered intolerant, since I dont want anyone to fight using their beliefs as swords but...
You see, I agree with you that none shall mock religion. The mocked Jesus has made your blood boil, the same that happened a couple of times when CM sees the muslims beliefs being thorn, and then I agree with banishment. But cant this be avoided with tolerance from us all? Not only here, but everywhere. Yes I'm very naive, very utopic...

Yes @Gilles, DEN proved to be a good person. He is a fine lad, just needed to understand the goals of SYM.

@All: Have I been clear?