A more serious SYM thread (no spam)

[Phreddie]

Some of us are just a little... uncomfortable, with the way things are, I liked it fine earlier, though now, I am seeking rmoe contentment, and spam just doesnt do it for me any more, it runs through the system too fast, and takes away fromt he time I give to working, so im seeking a balance, we are not, repeat NOT trying to force a new style on any one, we are just trying to make this a better place for ourselves and our fellow constituents through our own actions, while at the same time not trying to disrupt or discomfort any other members. Please do not leave SYM, we are not trying to change you, only ourselves, if you agree then fine, if not thats cool too, but please do not leave, your loss would be a great one, and you would become one of the greatly missed members...
I know I sound like an evangelist, but im not trying to conert, jsut tryin g to jsutify to myself, state my problems, and my thoughts, then trying to fix them by working form the outside in, because being on the inside distorts my vision of the larger picture, if i can keep ym mind focused on what I want to do, while still ebign able to see the effects of my actions and those of others, I believe I will be more effective at what ever it is I plan on doing, and I believe this holds true ot all situations in my life, and maybe in a few in others, read my words, and take them as you will, but know they were not meant to offend anyone.

[ch85us2001]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phreddie we are not, repeat NOT trying to force a new style on any one,

So, if your not gonna force this on me, I, or any other member who doesnt feel like it, dont have to abide by your ettiquitte? Whats the point of setting it up then?

[Luis Antonio]

This is not a dispute, Chus, this is a discussion. That last sentence of yours can generate flames that you wouldnt be able to control, so back off now. Please.

[ch85us2001]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luis Antonio This is not a dispute, Chus, this is a discussion. That last sentence of yours can generate flames that you wouldnt be able to control, so back off now. Please.

Oh, I just saw that and I think your right. Sorry. Ill go edit it, but the rest of it stands where it is.

[Phreddie]

It is illogical.

and yet so not.

we are doing this for ourselves, or atleast I am, I cannot, will no force my views on others, it is wrong, it is against what i believe, i believe it is ok to inform, have an intelligent discussion and back off where unwelcome, i see that I am unwelcome with you, unless your up for a good, friendly argument, love those myself, but i pormise you i will not force my decisions on you, i have not the authority, nor does anyone else, (maybe be buck but he cant change a mind, only the superficial), if in my talks/rants/spam, i make you uncomfortable tell me and ill back off.

[ch85us2001]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phreddie It is illogical. and yet so not. we are doing this for ourselves, or atleast I am, I cannot, will no force my views on others, it is wrong, it is against what i believe, i believe it is ok to inform, have an intelligent discussion and back off where unwelcome, i see that I am unwelcome with you, unless your up for a good, friendly argument, love those myself, but i pormise you i will not force my decisions on you, i have not the authority, nor does anyone else, (maybe be buck but he cant change a mind, only the superficial), if in my talks/rants/spam, i make you uncomfortable tell me and ill back off.

No, I was out of line there and Im sorry, but my veiw stands.

Now I will settle down and have a friendly discussion.

[Phreddie]

good, i was worried for a moment you were going to leave, id stop coming too if there were no SF, id pop in at random moments... but i wouldnt be a regullar any more. If i go preacher again, kick me.

[ch85us2001]

I just dont believe you can fit conformity on to something so nonconformall (I know that cant be a real word.)
I think it would, to use Iks words, kill SYM. I believe the people who support would like it for a while, then wish it were back to the way it is now.

[Ravager]

Okay, my reponse to this…

I see this as a rehash of the Old vs. New debate that continues to crop up without resolution. And it is impossible for me not to draw paralells between ‘SYM’s decline’ and that situation regarding spam.

The conditions were already present when they decided to join on SYM

When do you see the initial point for this? I see it as a gradual thing that has always been the case. I wouldn’t be surprised if someone who has been around longer than you to say the same and so on.

The expectations and rituals and everything that seemed to form the foundation of the old SYM are either rotting or evolving, whichever has your fancy.

The perception of SYM is a purely individual thing. What you say SYM is, could be completely different to someone who joined at the same time etc. And of course, the extension of this is that some people will be happy and some will not.

"We must learn to live with the evolution of SYM as a natural occurence over time and we can't expect SYM to always be the same BLABLABLA" I can't live with that and I want SYM to return to glory.

Well, I can live with it, despite the odd occasion when I may not like where a topic turns. However, this is part of respecting other people and what they wish a place or topic to be.

How about forming an etiquette to raise the standard?

If you are suggesting a set of rules or at least guidelines, you have to consider all the knock-on effects of this. Possibly it will deal with what you consider is bad, however it is likely to ‘scare’ new people off, irritate others (by having to carefully monitor ecvery sentence they write) and you’ll lose a lot of what makes SYM what it is and what it was.

What about ignoring those who are irritated? Not giving a damn about those oldies who wish their SYM stayed unspammed and educated and much the same.

Well, there’s been plenty of spam threads and topics that have ‘degenerated’ to spam over time. I’m sure that’s no symptom of just recent times.

I guess one of the problems with the Spam threads is that people that are frequently posting on them sometimes forget that you are not supposed to simply spam serious threads.

This may occasionly be the case, but there are many threads monitored over GB and they haven’t fallen apart with new members spamming them. Nor do I see the same happening in SYM. And when that does happen, who dissuades it from happening?

Not classy spam, when you spam and answer, as Bloodstalker has done in many ocasions.

Again, a personal opinion, rather than generally accepted.

Without wishing to go for any imposition of standards, it would help me if you would list just what ingredients of SYM you feel should be maintained and are being eroded.

I would agree, I have seen much of ‘old’ members reminiscing about old times and members that are no longer around, but no definitive list. And then, even if there was one, would you really wish to impose such standards? Do you really have the right to do so?

IMO if someone wants to change the face of SYM, they should set a good example

I agree, teaching by example works the best way, at least initially. If there continue to be problems then they are dealt with in a polite and understanding manner. Initial rules/guidelines stifle.

The purpose of this discussion, as I interpret it, is to divine the nature of this example, find what exactly is wrong, what is causing the wrong, and how to mend the wounds.

IMO, this is a discussion where the old members say what they liked and lament the passing of these times and their inability to change this. Sure, you can implement rules, but in the end you don’t dictate who joins and what kind of result would that have anyway, nothing likeable.

I liked it fine earlier, though now, I am seeking rmoe contentment, and spam just doesnt do it for me any more

I’ve seen this happen a lot. But generally it is not limited to a specific change in SYM. It’s getting fed up of a lifestyle for example.

Okay, that’s my point of view.
I tried to discuss it logically and my apologies to anyone offended by my views.

Ravager.

[Phreddie]

thats another thing that needs to be discussed, I thnak you for bringing it up:

Will it beworth it in the long run, will we adhere to what we say, will it reamain true to the day we leave? I believe there should be no discussion myself, everyone needs to post a view, saying this is who I am, this is what I believe, and this is what I will do. It is not a binding contract, it is just a way of letting people know themselves and their intentions. SYM wont be better, ever, it will be different, and thats all that will ever be, I will post myself tomorow after I have had time to think, colect my thoughts, until them, Im off, to spam sleep and eat.

[Hill-Shatar]

Well, Fiona, chu has been a much more active historian... although from what I see Phreddie is quickly catching up...

I have read through a lot of old threads... and when I mean a lot, I mean possibly several thousand by now. I have not been exactly keeping count.

To me, I think there has been some tension, some negativity, but SYM has gone through these periods multiple times before. Points where even common jokes were taken as insults.

SYM culture has changed, sure... new crowds come in , old crowds leave. To tell you the truth, I admire people such as Aegis, dragon wench, CE, Dottie, Fable, Xandax... all who have stayed around through the shifting sands of time. Consistently posting as they always have.

I have noticed certain sways in tones of SYM, but mostly because of the jumps I take. Many a time, I skip serious threads, because that would be an hour where I would learn very little of any person here. That has given me a view of what is going on at an increased speed. Some thickskinned people were shaven until they left, and others came and stayed, and decided to lurk away, like Tom, or Delacroix.

The 'death' of the old SYM never happened. It just grew. From a small group of people posting together, to a hugfe group posting in different time zones around the world, en masse in different threads. Sometimes people go through phases when they lurked, instead of posted, for long periods of time.

I can see what you mean that we newbies may not post the same way as Gruntboy, Vehemence or FoulDwimmerLaik (Guessing that last one) but I have read through the past threads, and to tell you the truth, threads and polls have begun to make more sense then they once did. They ust did not extend as long as they do now.

Pointing out, some people, like Yshania, still have contact with a great many old folks around. In fact, most of the people you see today are just after the original old group, and I am sure they moped and mumbled that it wasn;t the same anymore. All of a sudden, they had new upstart posters like Ik, and Luis, who didn't post the same way Vehemence did! People will always notice gaps in places where something used to be, but had it been there in the first place, would you have noticed?

SYM is not dying, in my opinion. Perhaps in twenty years, none of us will be around to rememnisce about what happened here. Hell, most of us will be reaching our forties or fifties (or seventies) by that time, and will have settled ibnto a life. Will that life involve popping in to GameBanshee daily for me?

Will we be the same people we were then? If Waverly came back, for a time, instead of posting a Hello-I'm-Back-Did-You-All-Miss-Me-Oops-Look-At-The-Time-Goodbye thread, are you totally sure he would post the same as he once did? Chu participates more in discussions now then he once did (no offence at all) so is he posting the same way he has for the last six months? Let alone six years?

Now, we have new holes being punched in the fabric of SYM. New holes with new properties of people from all ages, sizes, and types of humour filling around you once again. Yet some holes remain open, and those are the holes that seem to attract all the longing and the nostaligia you get from reading these threads.

I hope never to have to fill in for any member. I am not as precise as CE, as knowledgeable (widely) as fable, or as humourous as Luis, or as perverted as dragon wench. Nor do I think I am as memorable as some of the others. I am a different person that fits nicely into this hole I punched myself upon stumbling into SYM to post.

In my opinion, the subtle change of air and change in SYM has not been great. Same types of pubs, same types of thread, and sometimes, the same conversations pop up over and over again. Hell, the sheep and goats never get rest! For now, this newbie is quite content with how things are today.

The opinion of the newbie, anyways. Ramblings, more like.

[Yshania]

Ah, another decline of SYM discussion, perhaps?
Short of sounding insincere, been there and done it, a few times. I guess if we could just step back and accept that group dynamics will always change when someone leaves, and someone joins. Whether for good or for bad, it is inevitable (thankfully!)
When I joined, the board was less than six months old and there were less than 2000 people, there are more than 25,000 members now!
And I don't think we can blame the spam, per se, I recall one decline of SYM discussion that blamed too many serious threads and lamented the lack of spam!
I wonder who are the old crew now? lol!

[Luis Antonio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yshania And I don't think we can blame the spam, per se, I recall one decline of SYM discussion that blamed too many serious threads and lamented the lack of spam! I wonder who are the old crew now? lol!

Heh, yes, I'm considering myself older crew. I'm not spamming anymore, and I'm not humorous anymore as (thanks, Hill) some think. I'm disapointed, and I guess so is ik, and maybe we're trying to find out who we are and what should we do.

Funny, the way you put yourself into the discussion, Ysh. Realy, made me smile. You're so confortable with it

[Yshania]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luis Antonio Heh, yes, I'm considering myself older crew. I'm not spamming anymore, and I'm not humorous anymore as (thanks, Hill) some think. I'm disapointed, and I guess so is ik, and maybe we're trying to find out who we are and what should we do. Funny, the way you put yourself into the discussion, Ysh. Realy, made me smile. You're so confortable with it

Hmmm...now I come to think of it, you have lost newbie status for me, even though I don't post so much anymore....hope this doesn't disappoint you!

ROFL!! I guess you could say I've been around too long in SYM to be phased so easily now

Maybe - after a while - some feel a little "spent" if you like. The "been there and dunnit" feeling. I lurk a lot, but don't post so much now. I still enjoy following some of the discussions, even though I am not around often enough to keep up with the spam, lol!

[C Elegans]

I don't have time to post anything more in depth about this since I have to write up an article before I leave in 10 hours, but I agree with Hill's and Yshania's points, especially Yshania - perhaps because both she and I have been here for quite a long time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yshania Ah, another decline of SYM discussion, perhaps?

Perhaps we should start discussing the decline of the decline-of-SYM-threads?

Quote:

And I don't think we can blame the spam, per se, I recall one decline of SYM discussion that blamed too many serious threads and lamented the lack of spam!

The "decline of SYM"-concept has been blamed on too many new members and loss of old members, too few new members and thus stagnation among old members, too much serious discussion and too much spam.

Quote:

I guess if we could just step back and accept that group dynamics will always change when someone leaves, and someone joins. Whether for good or for bad, it is inevitable (thankfully!)

Dynamics is the key word here. We all exist in a temporal flow. Time passes, things change. Moments cannot be preserved, states depending on many changing variables cannot be everlasting, and why should they? On the contrary, the flow of people and the group dynamics is part of what has made me stay at SYM. A mix of different people and familiar people, with different opinions, styles and interests.