A dream of heroism (warning: lengthy)

[Galuf the Dwarf]

It was a little strange, really. A few of my dreams tend to act a bit like a video game.

So here I was, going through this world that was like a dream in itself. I seemd to skip over many of those details, though, coming to the final fight, which was against this vile, floating conglomerate of beastly fiends who planned to destroy Earth - at least what seemed like a miniature re, which was just about to complete such a plan when we finally caught up with it. As may happen, at one point it seems like we lost, but then suddenly my company's back to fighting it again, and this time we finally do finish the job. In the end, me and my companions succeeded, giving one last fatal slice that tore it into a harmless explosion of failing magic, all the intended destruction finally unworked.

Afterwards, we all met our final rewards. We met up with a tese 2 guys that appeared to be angels, one who had (at least at one point) eyes with red (I forget what you call the white part of the human eye) and black irises and was dressed in a robe that looked rather patterned like a garden of some sort. This one seemed to ask for the return some some bow, that actually looked like it was main from a human spine and/or a snake. Then this 'angel' said (at least to the people mentioned below) "Take one last good look at me." I did and that's when I saw his eyes.

From the looks of it, 2 of my companions - who appeared to be young women - were finally granted a peaceful death, becoming golden-eyed spirits. What happened to me, though, I can only say that I still lived.

What I know of myself in real life, though, this has a speck of truth to it. I don't feel like dying young, and my will to carry on has been rather notable. I've also domineered to do good for the sake of others. The sacrifices I've made are more of money, energy, and (most of all) time, than of my own life to this date. But still, after all that, I did not truly die!

Still, the way that this seems somewhat game-like is a hint disturbing. It marks my hunger for adventures that could be of that proportion. It's likely a play on such a desire, but still, I've found myself still hoping for such an adventure in real life, where I can truly put my skills and virtues to their limits, actually taking action instead of something like simple charity or activisim. I dream to make things right with actions unlike any other.

[Vicsun]

Join the army.

edit: I'm serious, have you looked into it? You'd get enough adventure to last you a while.

[C Elegans]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galuf It's likely a play on such a desire, but still, I've found myself still hoping for such an adventure in real life, where I can truly put my skills and virtues to their limits, actually taking action instead of something like simple charity or activisim. I dream to make things right with actions unlike any other.

I don't understand at all why you'd find fighting against some monster more adventureous or more heroic than "simple charity". I have a friend who is an ER doctor and an alpinist, he is part of the international SOS rescue force and he is called in whenever there is a natural catastrophy, war or other emergency all over the world. He has gone around the Himalaya in helicopter and well as dug his way through earthquake areas in order to rescue people. At my lab, we have a nurse who used to work for the Red Cross helicopter force. She used to work in the Middle east and Africa in various civil wars before joining our lab. I am sorry, but I really think fantasy monsters are ridiculous compared to the kind of work these people do.

Since there are no monsters but mankind in reality, I think you should consider to do something meaningful with your urge for adventure.

[TonyMontana1638]

Erm, is this a question? Are we even supposed to comment? If so then... Lemme give you something to think about.

A few years back my High School English class was discussing Beowulf, which we had been reading, and I asked my English teacher why we didn't seem to have Beowulfs anymore: larger-than-life heroes whose stories were known by all and seen as the 'ideal man' (I think we probably do still, but I didn't see who at the time). She replied 'is it because we have no more heroes, or because we have no more dragons to slay'? This sounded impressive and agreeable to me at the time, but later I realized how unbelievably ignorant and arrogant such an idea is. Is everything right in the world then? My ass. 'Adventures', so to speak, are relative to everyone: if you aren't content, then go find something more to your liking. You want to be a war-hero, you want to go work with impoverished children in Africa then my hats off to you but some are content with trying to keep a job, raising kids and maybe being a hero to them like my parents and grandparents are to me. It's all relative, there are adventures and heroes everywhere... It's just a matter of perspective. Here's to hoping you find your calling.

Or there's always DnD, some friends, and a box of powdered donuts... Hmmmm, donuts.

[dragon wench]

In a similar vein to what CE mentioned, if you have any thoughts at all towards something like being a doctor, there is an organisation called Médecins Sans Frontières (Doctors Without Borders).... What they do definitely falls under the category of "Heroic."

You might also want to look at any number of NGOs (Non Governmental Organisations)....
For example: Oxfam, Amnesty International, or Greenpeace. And that is just for starters... there are many similar international bodies out there.. I suspect Lestat is the guy to ask for more information

[Aramant]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyMontana1638 I asked my English teacher why we didn't seem to have Beowulfs anymore

You mean "Beowulves".

Re: the lack of dragons mentality, maybe it's just that we've become so used to the continuing problems that it seems like it's normal for them to be there. I dunno. Sort of like a combination of being jaded, being apathetic, and maybe a bit of ignorance too.

@ Galuf, I'm interested by the fact that you compare the idea of epic or quasi-epic heroism, valour, and self-sacrifice with video games rather than with any other medium, or with any real life phenomenon. My interest isn't a criticism at all, don't get me wrong: it's more that it makes me think about our society or culture when such things are associated with video games before anything else, real or imaginary.

Also, I sort of agree with the previous suggestions in this thread for ways to do great and good things. In a more general sense, I think the overall idea is to find a problem affecting other people, and do all you can to fix it.

[Lestat]

Sorry to be the party pooper...

There's nothing heroic about MSF, ICRC, or any other NGO that works in difficult circumstances, at least not in the sense that many people see it.
Yes there is some form of idealism, yes, there is some form of sacrifice if you want, but it doesn't really amount to heroism, it's closer to decency and humanism. Screw the cowboys & heroes in fact. Give me the sensitive, tormented doctors & nurses who don't know who to save, but still have to make choice, and wake up every night about their choices. The ones that have to choose between staying and going when neither is a good solution.

Nah, nothing to do with heroes, everything to do with humans, real humans, lovable & adorable humans but fallible humans. I'm happy to have worked with them.

[VonDondu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lestat There's nothing heroic about MSF, ICRC, or any other NGO that works in difficult circumstances, at least not in the sense that many people see it. Yes there is some form of idealism, yes, there is some form of sacrifice if you want, but it doesn't really amount to heroism, it's closer to decency and humanism...

In other words, what they're doing is not heroic because they're just doing their jobs.

I disagree. I think there is at least one thing that is heroic about them: the fact they chose such jobs when they could have done a million other things that involve less sacrifice.

The thing that is missing from Galuf's dream (just as it is missing in many stories, whether real or imagined) is why a person puts himself in a position in which he has to save other people or "save the world" in general. I think that people can make "heroic choices", if you will, and maybe that is what makes them heroic--fighting a battle they don't have to fight, but doing it for the good of everyone or simply because it's the "right" thing to do.

But we also talk about heroes who were put in dangerous positions through no choice of their own, yet they fought bravely to save themselves and/or others. Since the movie Flight 93 just came out, I've heard some discussion about whether the passengers on that plane were "heroes". Some of them fought to save their own lives or to save the whole plane. Something set them apart from the passengers who were either powerless or who chose not to act. Was it heroism?

[dragon wench]

It also occurred to me earlier that you might find it worthwhile to check out the Peace Corps.
Here is a SYM thread on the Peace Corps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lestat Screw the cowboys & heroes in fact. Give me the sensitive, tormented doctors & nurses who don't know who to save, but still have to make choice, and wake up every night about their choices. The ones that have to choose between staying and going when neither is a good solution.

Perhaps not heroic in the sense of fiction and gaming, but in the real world I'd say it certainly amounts to 'above and beyond' what many others do.

[Galuf the Dwarf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicsun Join the army. edit: I'm serious, have you looked into it? You'd get enough adventure to last you a while.

Not too keen on killing other humans, honestly.

[TonyMontana1638]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galuf the Dwarf Not too keen on killing other humans, honestly.

Alright, then look into some of the other topics mentioned maybe: medicine, peace corps, community service-stuff, etc. Foreign relations maybe? I know a guy two years older than me going to college and training to be a translator of various middle eastern dialects (don't remember which one(s) exactly), wanting to work with a foreign embassy or something. Not glamorous, but that's one way to promote understanding amongst people of different cultures which I think is an admirable goal.

[Lestat]

@ VonDondu, DW et al.: do not think that I belittle the work of NGO's and MSF in specific, to do so would be as much as saying I wasted four years of my life.

It's just that I have difficulty rhyming "heroism" and what I have experienced, seen and heard from colleagues. Moreover, do not forget that emergencies are the only programmes of these organisations, but that there are others like providing health care (in a large sense) to disfavored groups like street children or refugees & IDPs, or focused programmes like Mental Health Care institutions in ex-Soviet countries, TB programmes in Siberian prisons, vaccination campaings or assistance to setting up self-help groups for survivors of the Rwandan Genocide. There is a lot of quiet work going on in the shadow of the blitzy interventions in mediatised large crisises, work that demands commitment and professionalism rather than heroism.
And of course people do not join out of purely altruistic reasons (those that do don't last), often there is the sense of adventure of going abroad, curiosity about other cultures or even padding your resume with an experience abroad.

It's just that if you told me that such and such or so and so is a hero, I'd react "yeah right, you should see him at the breakfast table on Sunday morn... uh noon" (and that is in the field, not back home ). It's just that I have bit of difficulty of putting that "=" between "hero" and my ex-colleagues.

That doesn't mean that I want to discourage Galuf (or anyone else) of joining or so, but if it is like "Let's do something heroic, let's join MSF (or another organisation)" you're on the wrong track. BTW here is the site of MSF-USA, I linked to the "volunteer on the field" page to give you an idea about requirements.

You might get the opportunity to do something truly heroic, a bit more maybe than otherwise, but first and foremost you do what you have to do.

Oh, and a word about the Peace Corps & American NGO's, they are often and more than other organisations associated with their government by people. I have heard more than once the Peace Corps being referred to as "spies", by otherwise fairly sane and not unfriendly people.

[Vicsun]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galuf the Dwarf Not too keen on killing other humans, honestly.

Join the dragon-slaying corps.

[C Elegans]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lestat Moreover, do not forget that emergencies are the only programmes of these organisations, but that there are others like providing health care (in a large sense) to disfavored groups like street children or refugees & IDPs, or focused programmes like Mental Health Care institutions in ex-Soviet countries, TB programmes in Siberian prisons, vaccination campaings or assistance to setting up self-help groups for survivors of the Rwandan Genocide. There is a lot of quiet work going on in the shadow of the blitzy interventions in mediatised large crisises, work that demands commitment and professionalism rather than heroism.

But that's as "heroic" as you can get, at least in my opinion. Fairy-tale heroes are just fairy-tales. If being "heroic" is equal to run around in a shining armour and "save the world" from monsters, then you have to stick to fairy tales. If however somebody is interested in "heroic" actions such as making a real difference in decreasing suffering and at the same time experience something exciting and "adventurous", then working for organisations like MSF or ICRC would be perfect. I have many friends who work for various organisations in both emergencies and long-term health care or social projects. Personally I cannot see why emergency work would be more "heroic" than long-term work, but for people who prefer to work under high adrenaline release, it is of course more "adventurous". However, all people I know who work with these kind of things - be it as emergency helicopter staff or setting up organised health care for children in East Africa - have one thing in common: they are no dreamers. They are people who want to do things in reality and experience things in reality. They are not people who look for easy kicks, they are people who are prepared to work very hard. I don't know what you are looking for @Galuf, but the computer game and fantasy literature "save the world in 10 easy steps"-scenarios have absolutely nothing to do with how to do decrease suffering and injustice in reality.

Quote:

And of course people do not join out of purely altruistic reasons (those that do don't last), often there is the sense of adventure of going abroad, curiosity about other cultures or even padding your resume with an experience abroad.

I bolded part of this paragraph because this is true for all kinds of "altruistic" work. If you don't get any personal satisfaction, happiness and reinforcement, you simply won't last as an aid-worker, surgeon, fire man or scientist either. Getting something out of it at a personal, egoistic level does not contradict being professional.

Quote:

You might get the opportunity to do something truly heroic, a bit more maybe than otherwise, but first and foremost you do what you have to do.

Again, I think this is a question of what we mean with "heroic". I don't view any human activity as "heroic" in the fairy-tale sense, because in the real world there is nothing like the fairy-tales. On the other hand, my ideas about what is good things to do for other people and what is an "adventure" is nothing at all like fantasy stories - I honestly think fantasy stories are very boring. "Heroic" for me is to do your utmost to decrease suffering for other people and "adventure" for me is to experience novel things that demand you use your skills to the absolute limit and above.

Quote:

Oh, and a word about the Peace Corps & American NGO's, they are often and more than other organisations associated with their government by people. I have heard more than once the Peace Corps being referred to as "spies", by otherwise fairly sane and not unfriendly people.

This is consistent with the information I have as well.

[Lestat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by C Elegans Personally I cannot see why emergency work would be more "heroic" than long-term work, but for people who prefer to work under high adrenaline release, it is of course more "adventureous".

It is more stressful and can be morally wrenching, moreso than LT projects, which can be boring and are sometimes further from benificiaries. Risks are also usually higher, especially in war contexts.
At the same time they can be emotionally more rewarding and as you say the adrenaline counts for some of its "attraction" too, hence the sometimes heard "Ah, a nice emergency!", which of course sounds totally wrong in view of the victims, but conveys a bit the feeling of the exhiliration of working through the night to get things done on time, and the immediate and visible "reward" when successful. This is less the case in LT projects where progress is slow, or at least gradual, and often only visible in statistics...

And the worst job in the "aid world", in terms of emotionally and psychologically taxing, must be ICRC delegate responsible for prison visits and follow-up on prisons. That might be coming close to heroic. Seeing what those people see, hearing what they hear, and not being able to talk about it in detail to friends or family *shudders*. But even the people in that job are relatively normal and have nothing heroic (I know one really well and I can just imagine the somewhat cynical laughter that would follow any suggestion she's a heroine ).

Heroism is for me a thing of moments rather than people.

But of course one has to have a bit of an adventurous spirit to expatriate oneself with one of these organisations.