Stamina to finish games

[DesR85]

Originally Posted by GawainBS

*suffers a seizure and a heartstroke*

Why act so surprised? You may like those games but that doesn't mean everyone will like them. And I agree with Domi Ash. If you don't like a particular game, why force yourself to continue playing it?

[Brother None]

This thread surprises me and it doesn't. I guess I'm one of the only people left who never seriously starts a game (as in not just "check it out", but start it to really play it) without finishing. Even if a game pounds on my head with hamers of boring (like Baldur's Gate), I still finish it.
Well, ok, there are some games I don't finish, that's those with game-stopping bugs or unplayable mechanics. But those are pretty much it.

Originally Posted by Ronan

Somebody really should make an RPG that is aimed at "RPG veterans" only. I'd really like to see sommething like that. There hasn't been a game like that in a long time and I have never played a game like that.

Eschalon: Book I's target audience is very clearly "old-school RPG players".

Which is a shame, because it means the game doesn't really move the genre forward in narrative or, well, anything. But it's good at what it does.

[GawainBS]

Originally Posted by DesR85

Why act so surprised? You may like those games but that doesn't mean everyone will like them. And I agree with Domi Ash. If you don't like a particular game, why force yourself to continue playing it?

It was an exageration.

[galraen]

It's not a matter of stamina with me that, being semi-retired time isn't a factor. I usually finish what I've started, if I don't it's because I didn't like the game. That's only happened with two games in recent times, Divine Divinity (just got too boring), and NWN2 MotB. I forced myself to get half way through NWN2 before the excruciatingly bad game design became more than I could tolerate. I managed to finish KOTOR2, despite its many flaws, got through Oblivion twice (the second time so I could play the Servants of the Dawn mod), but NWN2 was a bad game too far.

[Domi_Ash]

Heh, I haven't been able to get over PST's tragically slow beginning either. I'm saving the entire game for a rainy week.

I think I tried 3 or 4 times, and I mean 'gritting my teeth in frustration by trying desperately to get on with it' kind of trying, and then I started to mod it, and did not have time for it as the changes had to be pretty serious... so I think I am done with it for good. I am keeping my eye on the Planescape Trilogy for NWN2 though because I find the setting clever and fun.

Overoll though - don't like it, don't play it is my attitude. Sometimes, I think, the smallest thing can turn a person off the game, and sometimes there is simply no reason for it, if it doesn't strike a proper cord. Luckily, there are quite a few good games out - well, in my terms. I am sure that people who have more time will disagree, but I have to confess that I am overwhelmed by the amount of games to play in the next 2 years (ME this May, a few NWN2 mods and DA in 2009). And yes, I can't finish MotB and have not even started KOTOR 2.

[Yuri]

Just means you gotta finish them faster

[DesR85]

Originally Posted by Yuri

Just means you gotta finish them faster

What's the point if you're very busy?

[Domi_Ash]

Indeed. It's not that I don't rush through some sections of the games, mostly boring dungeons or when I have to test stuff, but when a story is good and I see it first time, I want to savour it and relax when I play. They don't really give out medals for finishing a game, finishing a game under 20 hours, finishing it on the highest difficulty... or whatever.

Oh, and there is also an excellent sides to getting a game a year or two late: first, it is hopefully all patched by then, second - you can read a bunch of reviews, and third - you can get a used copy

[Shrap]

Originally Posted by Xandax

I'll sign up for this
I did finish the Witcher because I found it to be a quality game, but a game like Oblivion - well, DuhBlivion can play itself so it doesn't need me. I haven't even finished Mask of the Betrayer to NwN2 (yet), despite having it since release.

The (lack of) quality of games is definitely a factor, but I think it runs deeper then just that.
Sure, the quality and dumping down of games aka Oblivion for example; level scaling, teleportation, huge quest markers and the game making decisions for you in quests, console controls etc .... all that smacks of dumping down a game.
It is because the RPGs since BG2 have begun to become even more mainstream, that means they have to reach a bigger market segment, thus they have to start cater for the lowest denominator to sell more games. This waters down the genre to RPG-lite, because now suddenly it is a crime to be stuck in a game, and actually needing to think. (Who here remembers the "old" adventure games, where puzzles were so difficult that you'd have to wait 2 months for a walk through to be published in a magazine, so you could move on to the next one ).

However this is only part of the equation - we're also "experienced" now. Computer games and computerized entertainment is not a new area anymore - it has matured. This means we as players have "seen it all" so to speak. It is difficult to introduce a plot we haven't seen (Uhh, I have a memory loss and need to discover who I am .... )
It's like the movie industry - I can't remember the last time I got surprised at a plot-twist in neither a movie nor a computer game (and no, I did not get surprised at SW:KOTOR, that was so obvious a mile away, I mean ... come on ). This makes it more difficult for game producers to find something to draw us in and compete with the games we grew up with purely on the nostalgia factor.
I still install games from the early 90's and play them (thanks DOSBox) to a much higher degree then I do current games, simply because of quality combined with nostalgia, which is difficult to compete with now.
Last I played extensively was Master of Magic - fun fun fun. Even had a "competition" with a guy at work (my age as well) who also played at the same time, and he's not a "gamer" anymore - but these old games still grip him as well.

So while I do think a large part of the reason is dumping down and watering down RPGS (thank you Bethesda), it is also because we've as consumers and players have grown accustomed to the genre. It is hard to come with something new for players like us, so they just target the inexperienced and the twitch gamers that much more who put more emphasis on graphics and fast action gameplay, thus further more dumping down the games.

Good post and it hits on a lot of truths.
In their neverending pursuit of money, the industry has decided to cater to the 'casual' gamer. From an accountant's standpoint this is a brilliant idea, unfortunately for real gamers (dudes who play a game for a challenge, to overcome whatever obstacles put before him) it's the dark ages.
I hate to sound elitist but I remember when reading a walkthrough or using cheats was a sign of weakness, today it seems the norm...huh?
If there is *one second* of interruption in gameplay today, the game is 'TOO HARD'. Unreal.'
I would LOVE to see them make a challenging RPG again, then I wonder: Have the games gotten to easy or have I just been around the block so many times that it all 'seems' easy.
I remember playing Ultima IV and having to have a notebook nearby, filled with the translated alphabet, runes, mantras, coordinates, stats, locations of key characters, shipwrecks...granted I was like 14 and it took me months to compile, but I never thought of it as too hard, more like 'I must beat this game'...ah memories
Anyway, I will say when I played Oblivion, with all the markers and ease of play...I was like 'wow this is great, I'll have this beat in a few days'
Few days later I was like 'Wow, this sucks, I've gone from a RPG to a marker-chasing game. Chase marker, some dialogue, new marker to chase. That, is in no way, shape, or form an RPG. But on the other hand, to be able to kill someone, strip them naked and lay them face first into a roaring fireplace: Priceless.

[Shrap]

I was losing focus there, now I remember what I was going to say:
I have that same 'endurance' problem. For me, it's not that I cant finish, but more like the real challenge in these games is in the beginning when you have nothing and are vulnerable. Usually by 50% marker I've gone from base/stock gear to magical/enchanted gear. By the 75% mark - ya, I lose interest. I loot everything and explore everywhere so by 75% I have tons of money and surplus resources, my characters are at their peak and Im bored.
The next is my scenario for the past 10 yrs:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Hmmm, well, what if I save *this* game right here and see what would happen if I went with *this* type of character? to increase the challenge, to see other dialogue options, access other areas that my current character couldnt (due to race, gender, alignment).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
With that one question asked, I have never seen the ends to Oblivion, NWN, countless others...in fact I think BG was the last game I finished from start to finish (that and Fable). I remember looting that painting in the wall and thinking 'damn, Im glad I did it'.

[Shrap]

Originally Posted by GawainBS

*suffers a seizure and a heartstroke*

I hear this game didnt do very well. But being from BI/Interplay I tried it out.
Hands down, one of the best RPGs ever. The originality, the oddity, the characters, story, voice overs, crazy-ass plot. I thought I was a really good gamer until I finished the game and read the walkthrough, SO MANY ALTERNATE paths. If you missed this, you missed an amazing game.
A true RPG outside the realm of swords and sorcery, that in itself is a rarity

[Domi_Ash]

I remember playing Ultima IV and having to have a notebook nearby, filled with the translated alphabet, runes, mantras, coordinates, stats, locations of key characters, shipwrecks...granted I was like 14 and it took me months to compile, but I never thought of it as too hard, more like 'I must beat this game'...ah memories

Well, when I was 14... But I am not 14. I am 32 going to 33, and I have a full time job, a 19 month old baby and the rest of the family. To play games I get up at 3 am to play till 5 am when I need to get going to get to work by 6:30. So I can leave the office by 4 and get home in time to cook and relieve my husband from watching after our baby. Which time (3 to 5 am) I must share with maintaining and building mods. Which, building mods, I prefer to playing games. So, yeah, I do like using walk throughs once in a while and cutting corners by avoiding the stuff I don't like doing in games (shopping, looting, too tough fights) when I play. *And* I definetly don't play games that do not appeal to me, like NWN1 or Oblivion, or PS:T or whichever other one that doesn't capture my attention.

[Celos]

Originally Posted by DesR85

Why act so surprised? You may like those games but that doesn't mean everyone will like them. And I agree with Domi Ash. If you don't like a particular game, why force yourself to continue playing it?

It's still sort of an odd place to find someone who doesn't like EITHER of those two brilliant, brilliant games

As far as stamina in gaming goes, I'm exactly the same way. Few games since Gothic 2 have had me glued to the screen playing all the way to the end (Wither had the potential, but my PC was a bit too sluggish).

Originally Posted by Xandax

It's like the movie industry - I can't remember the last time I got surprised at a plot-twist in neither a movie nor a computer game (and no, I did not get surprised at SW:KOTOR, that was so obvious a mile away, I mean ... come on ).

Not that recent, but I do. Memento. You can't tell me you saw any of THAT coming ...

[Domi_Ash]

I had no chance to make a judgment call on Arcanum. The moment I saw the graphics, I shut it down. It can have the best story in the world, the coolest NPCs - I cannot play characters who look like bowling pins with arms. The day someone adds decent character avatars into Arcanum, I will give it another try. I was saying that for years now.

PS:T I dislike on many more levels than that.

Overoll, I do not see why you say that it is surprising to find someone who doesn't like either on GameBanshee? It looks like there are plenty folks around here, so plenty of individual tastes.

[GawainBS]

Originally Posted by Domi_Ash

I had no chance to make a judgment call on Arcanum. The moment I saw the graphics, I shut it down. It can have the best story in the world, the coolest NPCs - I cannot play characters who look like bowling pins with arms.

Wow, that's pretty shallow...