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10-04-2005, 05:23 PM
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| | | I tend to agree with the notion that the Zelda games are not so much RPG's, but adventure. Doesn't make them any less enjoyable, as they are amongst my favorite titles.
A real shame is the direction Squaresoft's work is going (I refuse to recognize Enix as a part of them). It seems to be gradually becoming worse and worse over the years, with only a couple gems here and there. They seem to be taking the Sony approach, and making a number of games, hoping one of them does well. |
10-04-2005, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by TonyMontana1638 I agree Fable sucked and, in everyone else's defense, I never really considered Ocarina of Time as an RPG, rather as an adventure game... | I've never played console Zelda, though we have some we got our kids with the 'Cube ... but played both GBA games, and they are really good - but *NOT* RPG.
As for Fable, I see it as failing to meet expectations, but 'suck'? That is a bit strong, eh? I just finished it (TLC on PC), and see it as a 8/10 game - solid and enjoyable, nothing earthshattering.
Mike |
10-05-2005, 04:08 PM
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| | | See I didn't enjoy it at all; maybe it's because I tend to look for a great story more than anything else and Fable hardly has that. The graphics are cool and the gameplay is solid, but I found it very bland overall. |
10-05-2005, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by TonyMontana1638 See I didn't enjoy it at all; maybe it's because I tend to look for a great story more than anything else and Fable hardly has that. The graphics are cool and the gameplay is solid, but I found it very bland overall. | It's a trend of RPG's these day. Since Blizzard's success with Diablo (Okay, okay. Xan gets his Hanoi rant, I get my Diablo rant  ). Companies saw the successful formula of click-kill sort of RPG's, which in turn lead to a whole slew of them. While some to rise above the others, most are just the same things with a face lift. Fable is an example of one of these games.
The trend is even becoming true with developers like Square (see: Radiata Stories). A company that once told amazingly well crafted stories of high fantasy, backed by a phenominal orcheastral score have become a part of the same cookie cutter formula. |
10-05-2005, 06:17 PM
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| | | People blame the success of Diablo, but BG did every bit as well. I think it is that 'real' RPG's are harder to make and take more time ... hack-n-slash is quicker, since you don't need to worry about flexibility to the same extent, or dialogue trees, and such.
Mike |
10-05-2005, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by txa1265 People blame the success of Diablo, but BG did every bit as well. I think it is that 'real' RPG's are harder to make and take more time ... hack-n-slash is quicker, since you don't need to worry about flexibility to the same extent, or dialogue trees, and such.
Mike | I'm not quite sure I follow what you're getting at here.
Baldur's Gate did well, because it was an extremely well put together game, in all aspects. It had story, sound, gameplay, plus a good license. Diablo did better because it was more accessible and friendly to non-RPG players, with little more than a frame of RPG elements, and a whole lot of button mashing.
The formula that survived, sadly, is the Diablo one, not the BG one. |
10-06-2005, 10:12 AM
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| | | Baldur's Gate and Diablo, though both RPGs, are so glaring in their differences I find it hard to compare the two. BG and, in particular, BGII: SoA both sold very well and are considered to be some of the best games of all time but hardly sparked the kind of craze that Diablo and Diablo II did. The Diablo's were, at its core, relatively simple click-fests that lacked a terribly engrossing story but were immensely popular because they appealed more to the casual gamer. There was also a remarkable depth of content within the skill branches for each character that appealed to more hardcore gamers that kept them coming back for more, not to mention the addictive competitive online play that kept the game going for so long after its release.
BG was really the exact opposite.
They were immensley detailed games that contained ungodly, unfairly engrossing stories that sucked gamers in and wouldn't release them until long after the game was complete. The competive play was almost nonexistant but it was the story, the depth of gameplay, the character interactions that made them as amazing as they were. The monsters, the weapons, the quests, the plot turns were (egads!) something that games of comparable nature could never compete with and still haven't.
Now tell me which of these game designs is still around today? Hmm? Jade Empire, LOTR: The Third Age, those Dungeon Siege games I hate, BG: Dark Alliance I and II, Freedom Force I and II, the new Pool of Radiance, Dungeon Lords, Divine Divinity, Fable, every MMORPG known to man; what category do they fall under? These are mostly all fine games that I enjoyed but were hardly as engrossing as BG and BGII, and definitely closer to Diablo than BG. I've exempt KOTOR because it's are closer to BG than any games up to this point in time have been.
Now WHY is this?
Like Aegis said they're easier to make and appeal more to the casual gamer than the monstrosities of BG (and Morrowind, thank god for Bethesda) and so the market is flooded with them. As the world poulation's attention span goes, so goes the rest of entertainment.
Last edited by Hill-Shatar; 10-06-2005 at 10:09 PM.
Reason: Profanity- Violates Rule #3
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10-06-2005, 02:12 PM
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| | | Do you really think the problem is people's attention span ? I'm not sure that has changed. If the Diablo type game is easier and cheaper to make, and commands a less specialised audience maybe that is enough to explain it. The problem is located in the makers not the players if that is so. Not that I'm particularly well informed, I hasten to add |
10-06-2005, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Aegis I tend to agree with the notion that the Zelda games are not so much RPG's, but adventure. Doesn't make them any less enjoyable, as they are amongst my favorite titles.
A real shame is the direction Squaresoft's work is going (I refuse to recognize Enix as a part of them). It seems to be gradually becoming worse and worse over the years, with only a couple gems here and there. They seem to be taking the Sony approach, and making a number of games, hoping one of them does well. | I agree, the new Squaresoft games just dont feel like they used to. Square use to make great games little at a time, but the wait was worth it...now we're getting so many games with practically the same story. Its too bad Square had to put so much money into that Final Fantasy: Spirits within movie...if not, Enix would not have had to step in probably. If there is more to the story clue me in....
Did anyone like Star Ocean: til the end of time...I loved it, except for that annoying Hip-Hop song that would play with certain bosses
How about Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne......(not Digital Devil Saga).....a great game to play if your a bit tired of the hackNslash types.  |
10-07-2005, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Aegis It's a trend of RPG's these day. Since Blizzard's success with Diablo (Okay, okay. Xan gets his Hanoi rant, I get my Diablo rant ). <snip> | Oh, don't worry - I can rant about Diablo just as much as I can about stupid puzzles, just watch me go... 
But then again - I'd never classify Diablo as a CRPG to begin with which is why I don't often include it in my "rants"
Diablo is a blight on the RPG genrename and should never have been labled as such (but Blizzard wanted awards and where better then to release a game into a genre which didn't have much competition at the time).
It is pure 100% action much like shooter games except for the skillbased system.
Perhaps D2 is better, but the original Diablo helped kill the RPG genre in my view. |
10-07-2005, 11:58 AM
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Posts: 13
| | | The Magic Candle.
The first one I ever finished. Hooked on RPGs ever since. |
10-12-2005, 08:19 PM
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Posts: 24
| | | Philosophy
Planescape: Torment
I was very very young when i picked up PS:T and at the time it was the first time i heard philosophical chant and actually though that it wasnt about a whole bunch of barmy sods pushing elemental water to the clueless
It made the philosophical ideas shown somehow relevant to the situation of TNO and by association, to me. It has lead to far more navel gazing in my life than previously expected by anyone who has ever met me, including myself. Though not just the ideas that are brought up in PS:T but also broadened my horizens to all kinds of bizzare ideology, im even thinking of getting a Zeta scan.
Last edited by TinSaladin; 10-13-2005 at 07:00 PM.
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10-12-2005, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Destinasi The Magic Candle.
The first one I ever finished. Hooked on RPGs ever since. | Great game, that. I think we may be the only two on this board who recall it. I only wish Ali Atabek had remade it with better graphics years later--but he seems to have vanished a few years after joining Interplay and developing a couple of interesting strategy games.
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10-13-2005, 06:22 AM
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Posts: 62
| | | quest for glory 5:dragon fire, too bad it's latest platform where it's playable is windows '98, because i'd play it again just now ifi could, this game had a great feel of ancientness around it, you were a great mage if you had just a few dnd cantrips, the fact that even though the area around you was loaded with epic magic, when just minor things become great i get a feeling i'm really in a role playing game, not just a hack and slash (although that was a great part of it) but best were the area's which had great graphics for the time, and had a mystical sphere...
i could go an and on about this game, fact is, i love it. |
10-13-2005, 03:20 PM
| | Banned | | Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Chasing nuns out in the yard
Posts: 4,613
| | @Xandax: Your comments on Diablo are a little extreme, I'll admit, as very few people would go so far as to call Diablo anything but a CRPG, but I couldn'tagree with you more...
And yes, in Deadalready's direction, I do blame people's shortening attention spans for alot of things; why literature is all but dead, why games that take over 60hrs to complete (except Elder Scrolls) are extinct and why Americans need people to tell them how to feel about politics (Spin this Bill O Reilly... eat it sean hannity)....
But wait this in an RPG forum , I'll stop. | | Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes | Rate This Thread |  Linear Mode | | 
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